The books of Leviticus and Numbers

[pragmatist]

The Books of Leviticus and Numbers
Generally, the public is familiar with the writings in Genesis and to a lesser extent, Exodus. Genesis, the first book in the Old Testament concerns the beginning of life and the stories of the fall of man and later on, the great flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Exodus explains the forced departure of Israel out of Egypt. But two books that deserve a high degree of scrutiny through the Ancient Alien lens are Leviticus and Numbers.
Leviticus expands on the laws given to Moses in the form of the Ten Commandments. In fact the book, allegedly written by Moses and Aaron breaks down the ’Lord’s’ laws into three separate, detailed disciplines: a manual on how to live. The first discipline concerns personal and business relations which may well have served as the basis for tort law. The second discipline specifies sexual relationships such as forbidding incest, homosexuality, and beastiality. The third specifies in minute detail how, and when to offer ‘sacrifices’ (meals) to the ‘Lord’. Keep in mind that these are instructions from ‘Lord’ to Moses, and Moses and Aaron recorded them for use by generations. Here on I will refer to ‘Lord’ as the Advanced Being. Of note in the instructions of the sacrifices, one can not help but notice how specific the Advanced Being is about the ages of the livestock, the manner to butcher the animals, the parts to offer at the altar and tabernacle, and the recipe for bread to accompany the meats. Curiously, the Advanced Beings forbid certain animals, animals with any visible flaws, and above all, they forbid the use of yeast in the bread. Is it possible that the Advanced Beings would have a bad reaction to yeast?
A startling characteristic of these Advanced Beings reveals that they were ruthless and without compassion. There are numerous accounts of mass murders and biological attacks (plague) for something as trivial as complaining about the living conditions in the desert. Aaron had four sons. Two were made priests (cooks) for the sacrifices (meals). There is a passage where the two sons erred in the manner they made the fire at the tabernacle. For this trespass, they were incinerated alive right before their father’s eyes. Aaron’s wife, Miriam, also upset the Advanced Beings for complaining and was rendered a leper instantaneously (Moses wrote how her skin looked like snow after the ‘presence of the Lord’ cast a bright light above her). This appears to be more likely an act of radiation poisoning . In one passage, the Advanced Beings slaughtered 14,700 Israelites for insubordination.
Reading this, I could not help but think that the nation of Israel was tricked into leaving Egypt with the promise of a land of milk and honey, freedom, and eternal salvation. Instead of life in bondage in the land of the Pharaohs (who were visited by their gods), the nation of Israel succumbed to the wishes of powerful group of Advanced Beings as long time servants in the desert. It makes perfect sense to lead the people into a desert: no other life, dependence on them for ‘manna’ (many times the people would complain about having to eat the ‘manna’ , which tasted like olive oil only to be incinerated for their pleas), a perfect quarantine, cut off from civilization, and the promise of having the ‘lord’ to vanquish any opposing tribes or people. I believe the Israelites were hostages to a cruel and ruthless (possible rouge) group of Advanced Beings that benefited from the myth of divinity for their own survival without having to risk illness or death themselves. These beings had no more love for the Israelites than modern ranchers have for cattle. It is obvious that they had no respect for human life and viewed humans as inferior (which, taking into account the technology would be somewhat true).
My other take on this concerns an even darker view of the Ancient Aliens. I will explain that later on.

[lunarwing]

Very interesting point of view!

[CrackedCat]

This theory is almost in line with what I believe.

I believe the OT is full of 'gods'. Not just one or even one kind, but many different gods with either the same or differing agendas. When you look at the OT with the lens of AA theory, many questions arise.

Why would a benevolent and loving god create so much anger and war and sickness against a people he created and loved? Why would such a forgiving god wish to punish those who showed flaws in their thinking with stoning to death? People are people... and if he was so forgiving, you would think he would make it so that the people would learn in a nurturing environment. Why would an all-loving god have emotions such as anger, jealousy and hatred? Why would a god, create mankind in his own image, only later destroy that image by circumcision and seperate an entire race of people from the ones he first created? And yes, why be so explicit as to what was sacrificed (why sacrifice anything at all? Isn't worship enough?) and eaten? Why the rules on inter-tribal marriage, life and worship? Worship I can understand. Life, I can understand some of the rules as some are basic concepts of healthy and happy living. But why so detailed? Why so deliberate?

Why on earth would he take a people out of bondage, only to put them back into bondage for 40 years? Why 40 years? Why would a nomadic people need 40 years to travel to a single destination... when in all likelihood they could have found it on their own in much, much less time?

The next question to ponder is why would the AA's need a 'special race' to become their followers for 40 years, a race who seemingly walked in circles? Were they mining? Were they discovering new things that they wanted to keep hidden from mankind and in turn, other AA's?

And then you have the NT. Jesus comes down and revamps it. He says he wasn't here to change the laws, just to fulfill them. He is all about love, peace, humility, and forgiveness. It seems to me, the exact opposite of the OT gods. Perhaps he came down from the benevolent 'god' to set things straight again.

And who is Jesus? Every prominent religion has a god who resembles Christ in just about every way. Same birth, same agenda, same philosophies. I believe he was someone sent to show mankind their potentials as humans with alien genes. I believe he may be the same god as Christ, as Vishnu, and the Sun God, etc. just named and treated differently in each different culture. I also believe that the virgin was abducted, impregnated and led to believe she was visited by god to produce a god. I am sure there are many, many women who have had this same type of pregnancy.

To me, I now feel the bible is a great history book. There very well could be things of GOD, the TRUE Creator of All, but I think for the most part, it's a history of a time when people were being guided by other beings of GOD, but were not gods.

Thanks to people like EVD and Giorgio, the evidence is being put out there in a way to make people look at it differently. Thanks to people like them they have gathered people like us who also want answers, who thirst for knowledge.

The more this information is put out there for all to see and the more it is looked at with a fine-toothed comb, the sooner mankind can be set free. Set free in more ways than just organized religion.

Just my two cents.

[Marshall Ackerman]

you intrepretation of events leaves a little to be desired. It was not like there was a purpose behind this.

[CrackedCat]

you intrepretation of events leaves a little to be desired. It was not like there was a purpose behind this.

I may seem a little dumb here, but who's interpretation?

[Marshall Ackerman]

the op

[pragmatist]

Respectfully request a more detailed critique. Indeed, there had to be a purpose; the 'god' spent a lot of time and went through a lot of trouble to 'teach' and the nation of Israel. The question is why.

[CrackedCat]

Respectfully request a more detailed critique. Indeed, there had to be a purpose; the 'god' spent a lot of time and went through a lot of trouble to 'teach' and the nation of Israel. The question is why.

I agree. Why? Why single out a group of people, obviously from the very beginning? And because of this 'singling out' of the Jewish people, today they are very hated. Again, why?

What was the purpose? What did or do they want with the Jews? Why was it them and not a group that would turn into Brazilians or Polynesians?

Oh the questions. I hope someday we get the answers!

[Moon]

you intrepretation of events leaves a little to be desired. It was not like there was a purpose behind this.

This forum is for people to state their ideas and opinions. There are no right or wrong ones, and if you disagree, it is best to be civil about it and also explain why you disagree.

Thank you,

Lloyd

[pragmatist]

I just finished reading the book of Joshua. It is a description of all the battles that Israel waged on other kingdoms and villages that were pagan. Every town was obliterated. Every being - man, woman and child was killed. Each king was taken and hung. In one passage, the god of the Israelites instructs them to hamstring the horses and burn the chariots of an enemy army after they beat them. What kind of being would order the maiming of horses like that? If that was indeed 'god' don't you think that the 'god' would have made the horses disappear instead of ordering the army to savagely maim the creatures?

[CrackedCat]

I just finished reading the book of Joshua. It is a description of all the battles that Israel waged on other kingdoms and villages that were pagan. Every town was obliterated. Every being - man, woman and child was killed. Each king was taken and hung. In one passage, the god of the Israelites instructs them to hamstring the horses and burn the chariots of an enemy army after they beat them. What kind of being would order the maiming of horses like that? If that was indeed 'god' don't you think that the 'god' would have made the horses disappear instead of ordering the army to savagely maim the creatures?

The horses?? What about the people that 'he' supposedly created??????

I don't understand why in the OT they would order death and destruction and torture (hamstringing a horse does not kill it, but it maimes it to the point that it can't walk) and then come down later and teach the opposite???


Could there be 2 different kinds of gods in the OT? The ones who were benevolent and created the world (us) and then the unkind ones came and became a prominant part of the world? Thus we have a kind and loving god and a nasty kill everything kind of god.

Jesus came to set it straight. And He will again I am sure. He certainly would not have ordered the hamstringing of animals.

[Fetapro]

If I may, a couple of points about the positions listed above.
My sources tell me that the non Israelis who lived in the land of Canaan were infected with some of the same social diseases that are around today. They say that God ordered all of these people killed because if the Israelis intermarried with the non-Israelis then the diseases would enter the Israeli population. The Israelis were about 99 percent free of the diseases.
If I remember correctly the animals were killed and the property of the non Israelis were destroyed to prevent any possibility of diseases entering the Israeli population and to drive home the point that the destruction was ordered by God. This point was important because of the law that stated "You shall not commit murder"
If the Israelis had committed murder then they would also have been put to death. Therefore God was assuming the responsibility for the deaths of the non Israelis. Side note the sources state that one of the reasons that Israel was sent into Egypt out of the land of Canaan for 420 years was because God wanted to give the persons living in Canaan the chance to prove themselves. God said they failed and for that reason he ordered them killed. If they had proven themselves then God would have allowed them to live with the Israelis when he brought them into the land.
Second note. Yeast was used a leaven to make bread to rise. Leaven is symbolic of evil in the biblical text. That is why in many cases it was forbidden.
This is Gods point of view.
Hope it helps

[CrackedCat]

If I may, a couple of points about the positions listed above.
My sources tell me that the non Israelis who lived in the land of Canaan were infected with some of the same social diseases that are around today. They say that God ordered all of these people killed because if the Israelis intermarried with the non-Israelis then the diseases would enter the Israeli population. The Israelis were about 99 percent free of the diseases.
If I remember correctly the animals were killed and the property of the non Israelis were destroyed to prevent any possibility of diseases entering the Israeli population and to drive home the point that the destruction was ordered by God. This point was important because of the law that stated "You shall not commit murder"
If the Israelis had committed murder then they would also have been put to death. Therefore God was assuming the responsibility for the deaths of the non Israelis. Side note the sources state that one of the reasons that Israel was sent into Egypt out of the land of Canaan for 420 years was because God wanted to give the persons living in Canaan the chance to prove themselves. God said they failed and for that reason he ordered them killed. If they had proven themselves then God would have allowed them to live with the Israelis when he brought them into the land.
Second note. Yeast was used a leaven to make bread to rise. Leaven is symbolic of evil in the biblical text. That is why in many cases it was forbidden.
This is Gods point of view.
Hope it helps

Just one question. I can understand the view that God was getting rid of the diseases. When put like that it certainly makes sense. However, killing is killing. God telling a person to kill the neighbor because that neighbor has cancer, is still murder. That doesn't make sense to me. But the question... if God is so loving and so forgiving in the NT... why would He need anyone to prove themselves? Human kind all fail when in the eyes of God... why doesn't He come down and kill off those of us (which would be all of us) who don't add up to His measurements???

[Moon]

Wouldn't a just and loving God send in a healer or not create the disease to begin with? No matter how you look at it, people were slaughtered like cattle.

[CrackedCat]

Wouldn't a just and loving God send in a healer or not create the disease to begin with? No matter how you look at it, people were slaughtered like cattle.

That too, especially since ALL human-kind is supposedly loved so much that He sent His only Son to die for us.

I helped create my son, I would never in a million years destroy him because he became afflicted with a social disease of any kind. How would 'god' be any different?

[Fetapro]

Crackedcat:
Good question.
At the end of the Great Tribulation the events you have described will occur. Before mankind enters
the thousand year kingdom the evil ones will be removed. The biblical text states that two women
will be working together, one will be taken and the other left. (The one who is taken is evil and will
be judged).
But for the current time and in history.
King David asked God the same question.
Psalms Chapter 73:12 Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase
in riches.
Now look at the answer
Psalms Chapter 73:18 Surely thou didst sit them in slippery places: thou castst them down
into destruction.
Chapter 73: 19 How they are brought down into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly
consumed with terrors.
Why are the wicked cast down?
Job Chapter 1:21 may define it the best. "the Lord gave and, the Lord hath taken away"
He reserves the right to end the days of any man.
.
God passed judgment on those living in Canaan and that judgment for most of them was death.
The land was promised to Isreal's fathers, and
It served as and example to Isreal that to transgress the law was to die.

Now look in the new testament look at Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest:
and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, bind them
in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Those who are evil will be dealth with.
This is Gods point of view.
I realise that it is difficult for you to deal with the question. You are not alone.
I regret to say that I had a first cousin who I liked very much, but because of his life style and
choices God took his life at the age of 36 by cancer. Each time I visit his grave I think about this.
This world is not perfect, and we must try and understand it the best we can.
Hope this helps.

[3d monkey]

There is a passage where the two sons erred in the manner they made the fire at the tabernacle. For this trespass, they were incinerated alive right before their father’s eyes.

What if it was just an accident? I'm a beginner conspiracy theorist so let me adapt from experts: Never let an accident go to waste.

I can't believe that Aron (I mean the Ark of the Covenant) killed the sons of Aron (I mean the high priest) just because the sons of Aron (I mean the high priest) did not smoke what Aron (I mean the Ark of the Covenant) wanted to smoke. But I can believe that the oil on the heads of the sons of Aron (I mean the high priest) caught fire accidentally when they cooked liver for Aron (I mean the Ark of the Covenant). And Aron (I mean the high priest) called the next sons to serve Aron (I mean the Ark of the Covenant).

[CrackedCat]

Crackedcat:
Good question.
At the end of the Great Tribulation the events you have described will occur. Before mankind enters
the thousand year kingdom the evil ones will be removed. The biblical text states that two women
will be working together, one will be taken and the other left. (The one who is taken is evil and will
be judged).
But for the current time and in history.
King David asked God the same question.
Psalms Chapter 73:12 Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase
in riches.
Now look at the answer
Psalms Chapter 73:18 Surely thou didst sit them in slippery places: thou castst them down
into destruction.
Chapter 73: 19 How they are brought down into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly
consumed with terrors.
Why are the wicked cast down?
Job Chapter 1:21 may define it the best. "the Lord gave and, the Lord hath taken away"
He reserves the right to end the days of any man.
.
God passed judgment on those living in Canaan and that judgment for most of them was death.
The land was promised to Isreal's fathers, and
It served as and example to Isreal that to transgress the law was to die.

Now look in the new testament look at Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest:
and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, bind them
in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Those who are evil will be dealth with.
This is Gods point of view.
I realise that it is difficult for you to deal with the question. You are not alone.
I regret to say that I had a first cousin who I liked very much, but because of his life style and
choices God took his life at the age of 36 by cancer. Each time I visit his grave I think about this.
This world is not perfect, and we must try and understand it the best we can.
Hope this helps.

I'm sorry but the more I read and understand, the more I am leaning towards the idea that the OT, at the very least, was written about AA's who had agendas.

When Christ came around 'unbelievers and sinners' He forgave them if they asked. He didn't smite them then and there... even the ones who chose materialistic things over Him. Why? I know He is supposed to judge again and it will be done at that time... but why wait? God didn't wait in the OT... He judged them ALL without hesitation. And I am sure there were one or two good-hearted believers in those cities, and He killed them too.

IF Jesus visited other cultures and taught them the same things He taught to the masses (and I believe He did, too much evidence to say otherwise)... why would "GOD" kill a whole city for not believing in Him?? After all, IF Christ walked with the Hindus and the American Indians etc and taught them the same, wouldn't that make Him their GOD also? What will GOD do during the Judgment day to those who never heard of Christ??? Native Americans lived long before the Pale Prophet came to speak with them... will they all be judged and put to death because they did not follow His laws and will????? If so, then He isn't as loving and forgiving as He says He is.

[Majeston]

Crackedcat:

I regret to say that I had a first cousin who I liked very much, but because of his life style and
choices God took his life at the age of 36 by cancer. Each time I visit his grave I think about this.
This world is not perfect, and we must try and understand it the best we can.
Hope this helps.

Fetapro my wise yoda friend,
so, tell me how you understand this visitation by God.
You think God intentionally inflicted your cousin with cancer because he didn't like his lifestyle? Or, cancer killed him and then he went to be with God? or, something else?

[Nikola]

My two cents to this topic... if I may...


I very much like the way you people think - out of positive perspective. And trying to explain things that collide with your morality. Gladfuly enough we do not end up burnt at a stake. Well, we might not get reach or get higher in society by questioning the foolishness and narrow mindedness of the church and it's book, but we're still free to talk about it. And when the mind gets free, the body follows... sooner or later...

Now, about the bible.
Why are we still taking the bible as a credible source at first place? Yes, there are stories and events that we could made sense out of it. Ezekiel chariot for one, or Enoch's space experience for another. But hey, is that enough to take a whole story or a chapter as a fact?
So speaking of Moses... what if... what if that part was made up entirely? And the 99% of the whole book for that matter? Or at least only a few minor details were left and everything else is a fruit of medieval primitive mind of men, subconsciously creating characters and deeds that feed up theirs egos. Or a cold blooded and well calculated plan to catch and hold other people's minds and hearts into fear and devotion?
And guess what - the bible was written by men! There is no such thing as "words of god" - it's just a mental scarecrow to keep fear dominant in people's thoughts so they never question anything in the book. And it did a great job over the centuries.
There is no benevolent god or malevolent god, it's been made up, BY MEN! I'm absolutely sure that the truth is absolutely different.
The bible has been so twisted and biased through the ages so whatever truth has survived there is barely capable to change the fact that thew whole thing is a lie. Yes, I understand that the ark, for an example, could have actually been real technology, but does that alone give credit for all the remaining mumbo jumbo in the story?
Absolutely not!
The bible is not a credible source! It never was and it never will be!
That's what i think.

[CrackedCat]

My two cents to this topic... if I may...


I very much like the way you people think - out of positive perspective. And trying to explain things that collide with your morality. Gladfuly enough we do not end up burnt at a stake. Well, we might not get reach or get higher in society by questioning the foolishness and narrow mindedness of the church and it's book, but we're still free to talk about it. And when the mind gets free, the body follows... sooner or later...

Now, about the bible.
Why are we still taking the bible as a credible source at first place? Yes, there are stories and events that we could made sense out of it. Ezekiel chariot for one, or Enoch's space experience for another. But hey, is that enough to take a whole story or a chapter as a fact?
So speaking of Moses... what if... what if that part was made up entirely? And the 99% of the whole book for that matter? Or at least only a few minor details were left and everything else is a fruit of medieval primitive mind of men, subconsciously creating characters and deeds that feed up theirs egos. Or a cold blooded and well calculated plan to catch and hold other people's minds and hearts into fear and devotion?
And guess what - the bible was written by men! There is no such thing as "words of god" - it's just a mental scarecrow to keep fear dominant in people's thoughts so they never question anything in the book. And it did a great job over the centuries.
There is no benevolent god or malevolent god, it's been made up, BY MEN! I'm absolutely sure that the truth is absolutely different.
The bible has been so twisted and biased through the ages so whatever truth has survived there is barely capable to change the fact that thew whole thing is a lie. Yes, I understand that the ark, for an example, could have actually been real technology, but does that alone give credit for all the remaining mumbo jumbo in the story?
Absolutely not!
The bible is not a credible source! It never was and it never will be!
That's what i think.

A few short years ago, I would have argued all that. Now?? Nope. I am seriously seeing it for what it is now.

I am glad I opened my mind and heart to allow 'outside of the box' thinking. It certainly has helped me understand so much of what I questioned.

[Fetapro]

Crackedcat:
My sources tell me that the Old Testament was written for several reasons.
1. To serve as an example to all generations that follow after. The sins and mistakes of those
who are recorded there are a lesson of what will happen to those in the future who make the same
mistakes.Hopefully future generations will not make the same mistakes. Also for those who did
that which was right were rewarded, Noah, Abraham and Job, etc.
These entail the actions of those who lived during Noah's time, King David's time, The nation of Israel
during the time of the prophet Daniel and so on.
2. To tell the nation of Isreal when the Messiah would arrive.
This was important because if the nation of Israel had accepted him as the Messiah and the King
the thousand year kingdom would have started at that time. On several occasions Christ stated
"The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." John the Baptist stated the same thing. In practical terms if
the nation of Israel had accepted Christ, then he would have taken his place as the King of the
world and put down all sin and injustice. (This would have brought a quick end to the Roman Empire.)
3. To provide prophcy for the future. The future during the dispensation of law, the dispensation of
grace, the Great Tribulation Period, the Thousand Year Kingdom and eternity.
You asked about those who had never hear the biblical text, what happend to them. A good question
I asked that one many years ago. Some where in the work of Paul there is a statement that shows
if some one never hears the biblical text then Christ can judge them based on how they would have
reacted if they had heard the biblical text. Many of those will also be in heaven. This is possible
because God is infinate. (Also it goes into the process of election). Just because some one never
heard the biblical text dosen't mean they are lost.
The persons who lived with and before Noah were in this situation. Good Scholars have determined
that the biblical text was first written down by Moses, But the book of Job is the oldest, his story
was written or passed on oraly. I think Job lived in modern Syria about the time of the kingdom of
Sumur was in power. This was after the time of Noah.
As for the Ancient Aliens, they were active at this time but, I think they had to take a realativty
minor positions when compared to the activities of the central characters described in the Old Testament.
Hope this helps.

Majeston:
God afflicted my cousin with cancer for two reasons.
First to warn him of his need to accept Christ and make him think about what would happen when
he died, and second to take his life.
The biblical text speaks of "a sin unto death". This sin is different for each individual, in my cousins
case he lived for his own pleasure and gave no thought to what would happen after he died, until
he was diagnosd with cancer. Then he had to face the issue. This also goes in to the doctrine of
election.
The biblical text also states that vines are pruned that do not produce fruit. My cousin was not
producing fruit. For all of us who knew him, the loss of him among us was a painful, but important
lesson in this matter.
He accepted Christ before his death, now he is with Christ in heaven.
Hope this helps.

Nikola:
Good points. I have asked my self the same questions.
Here if my rational.
In my country if a matter is taken before a court then a process is used where evidence may be
presented. Eye witness testimony is the most valuable, then comes physical evidence, then
circumstancual evidence. I have sat upon a jury and had to weigh evidence and decide a verdict.
I used the same process to examine the biblical text. I have found many cases where the descriptions
were first person witnesses of an event. The were everyday people in many cases who describe what
they saw or heard. They did not do it for personal gain, but rather to explain what they saw or heard.
I have spent a lifetime among people like this. We have discussed many issues, and I find that the
persons who I have spoken with speak the truth. Most of these issues are everyday ones that I can
test for myself to see if the other persons speak the truth. By using the same measuring process for the
people who I know, I can also understand those persons who lived long ago and accept that they
spoke the truth about the things that they saw.
One case in point was Thomas the apostle. When the other apostles stated that they had seen
Christ alive after he was killed, Thomas stated that he would not belive unless he could see Christ
for himself and see the wounds on his arms, legs and chest. Christ appeared to Thomas and told him
to touch the wounds. Thomas did so. This convinced Thomas.This was also done for countless generation
who had the same questions. They could benefit from Thomas actions. One other note, in one of the
cases where Christ appeared to a group of living persons, they were afraid that he was a ghost.
He asked them to give himsomething to eat. They gave him some fish which he ate. The persons
watched this very human activityand were convinced that he was real and alive. They all agreed
that ghost don't eat food.(In all the ghost stories that I have read, I have never read of a ghost
that ate food)
If these persons were called into court and gave testimony and I was on the jury then I would have to
find in the favor of Christ being alive after he was killed on the cross. This is one example that I have
reasoned about. There are others, and enough that I must conclude that the biblical text is correct.
You are correct that over the years men and the church have tried to change it for their own purpose.
For that reason my sources reccommend the King James version or the 1901 translation of the
King James version.
To close, balance the things I have written here with other thing I have written. I am sure that Aliens
exist, and are among us right now. I am sure that they have lived among mankind for thousands of
years and interacted with humans. I think that the key elements to understanding the past, the present
and the future involve understanding (to the best of my ability) all sides of the question and then
assemble reality from what I understand. I don't just take any side of an issue just on faith. I look for
as much evidence as I can to valadate any data. Over the years I have read over 3000 books on many
subjects, even now I find that the things that I understand are small compared with the things I
do not understand. Therefore each day is a search for additonal data. Each of you are a good source
of said data.
Thank you for presenting your positions.

[Majeston]

Crackedcat:


Majeston:
God afflicted my cousin with cancer for two reasons.
First to warn him of his need to accept Christ and make him think about what would happen when
he died, and second to take his life.
The biblical text speaks of "a sin unto death". This sin is different for each individual, in my cousins
case he lived for his own pleasure and gave no thought to what would happen after he died, until
he was diagnosd with cancer. Then he had to face the issue. This also goes in to the doctrine of
election.
The biblical text also states that vines are pruned that do not produce fruit. My cousin was not
producing fruit. For all of us who knew him, the loss of him among us was a painful, but important
lesson in this matter.
He accepted Christ before his death, now he is with Christ in heaven.
Hope this helps.
.......Over the years I have read over 3000 books on many
subjects, even now I find that the things that I understand are small compared with the things I
do not understand. Therefore each day is a search for additonal data. Each of you are a good source
of said data.

Thank you for presenting your positions.

Fetapro my friend,
perhaps, you have mis-interpreted the lesson and the schooling continues......

consider the following....



147.3.3 In speaking to those assembled, Jesus said: “Many of you are here, sick and afflicted, because of your many years of wrong living. Some suffer from the accidents of time, others as a result of the mistakes of their forebears, while some of you struggle under the handicaps of the imperfect conditions of your temporal existence. But my Father works, and I would work, to improve your earthly state but more especially to insure your eternal estate. None of us can do much to change the difficulties of life unless we discover the Father in heaven so wills. After all, we are all beholden to do the will of the Eternal. If you could all be healed of your physical afflictions, you would indeed marvel, but it is even greater that you should be cleansed of all spiritual disease and find yourselves healed of all moral infirmities. You are all God’s children; you are the sons of the heavenly Father. The bonds of time may seem to afflict you, but the God of eternity loves you. And when the time of judgment shall come, fear not, you shall all find, not only justice, but an abundance of mercy. Verily, verily, I say to you: He who hears the gospel of the kingdom and believes in this teaching of sonship with God, has eternal life; already are such believers passing from judgment and death to light and life. And the hour is coming in which even those who are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the resurrection.”


>>>>>>>>>>>



190.5.4 As they walked along, Jesus said to them: “How slow you are to comprehend the truth! When you tell me that it is about the teachings and work of this man that you have your discussions, then may I enlighten you since I am more than familiar with these teachings. Do you not remember that this Jesus always taught that his kingdom was not of this world, and that all men, being the sons of God, should find liberty and freedom in the spiritual joy of the fellowship of the brotherhood of loving service in this new kingdom of the truth of the heavenly Father’s love? Do you not recall how this Son of Man proclaimed the salvation of God for all men, ministering to the sick and afflicted and setting free those who were bound by fear and enslaved by evil? Do you not know that this man of Nazareth told his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem, be delivered up to his enemies, who would put him to death, and that he would arise on the third day? Have you not been told all this? And have you never read in the Scriptures concerning this day of salvation for Jew and gentile, where it says that in him shall all the families of the earth be blessed; that he will hear the cry of the needy and save the souls of the poor who seek him; that all nations shall call him blessed? That such a Deliverer shall be as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. That he will feed the flock like a true shepherd, gathering the lambs in his arms and tenderly carrying them in his bosom. That he will open the eyes of the spiritually blind and bring the prisoners of despair out into full liberty and light; that all who sit in darkness shall see the great light of eternal salvation. That he will bind up the brokenhearted, proclaim liberty to the captives of sin, and open up the prison to those who are enslaved by fear and bound by evil. That he will comfort those who mourn and bestow upon them the joy of salvation in the place of sorrow and heaviness. That he shall be the desire of all nations and the everlasting joy of those who seek righteousness. That this Son of truth and righteousness shall rise upon the world with healing light and saving power; even that he will save his people from their sins; that he will really seek and save those who are lost. That he will not destroy the weak but minister salvation to all who hunger and thirst for righteousness. That those who believe in him shall have eternal life. That he will pour out his spirit upon all flesh, and that this Spirit of Truth shall be in each believer a well of water, springing up into everlasting life. Did you not understand how great was the gospel of the kingdom which this man delivered to you? Do you not perceive how great a salvation has come upon you?”



http://www.truthbook.com/

[CrackedCat]

""For that reason my sources reccommend the King James version or the 1901 translation of the
King James version.""

Even that version is tainted by man. I prefer the 1599 Geneva Bible. The footnotes reflect the thinking of the times (there is no rapture, and they believe in replacement theology, which I do not). For instance, Peter is said to be celebrating easter in the KJV. In the Geneva it is correctly interpretted as Passover (you can tell because 1... Peter tells God he has never eaten of the unlawful foods during the dream, which meant he still followed the Laws of Leviticus even after Christ's death, and 2... you can tell because it states it was the time of unleavened bread). James changed it to easter because that's what he celebrated. This is a big mistake because of easter being a pagan custom/celebration, and God is very explicit about celebrating pagan customs to celebrate Him (Christmas is also one of these customs, you can read what God thinks of the practice of Christmas trees in Jeremiah 10). It then leads others to celebrate it as well. All translations, with the exception of the originals, are tainted. An awesome book to read about this is "New Age Bible Versions" by G.A. Riplinger. She takes the different bibles verse by verse and compares them to each other. And then compares them to the original languages. It's an eye opener to say the least. But she also states that the KJV is the better translation, which I don't agree with.

Plus, I do not think a god that would have so much against sleeping with men and animals would want to have that man's name on 'His Word'. It is well documented that not only was King James a blatent homosexual, but was also very present in the beastiality aspect as well. He supposedly would go on a hunt, bring back half-dead animals, have sex with them and then supposedly roll in their blood before they died. If god afflicted your cousin for his homosexual ways, surely god would have done more to King James!!

I do believe the bible to be a good source of history and instruction for good living. However, I do believe the bible is also full of control and manipulation. I have read 3/4's of the Book of Josephus, the historian of the time who was known for being so meticulous in recording the happenings of the world at the time...and who was a practicing Jew who did not think of Jesus as the Messiah, even though he wrote about some of the miracles Jesus did. He collaborates quite a few things of Christ that is mentioned in the bible as well as some other historical facts. That helps me understand that Christ was real and very well could be 'the Way the Truth and the Light'. But as for the (bad) stuff that happened in the OT... I cannot wrap my mind around it as coming from a loving god.

The world is in way worse shape (and has been for a long long time) than in the times of Sodom and Gomorrah. Why hasn't god come down and smite us just as was done in the biblical times? Why wait as long as He has considering it was only a few to several hundred years after creation that He showed judgment on the 'ungodly'. Why not give us the reminder that we so obviously need? I agree that the prophecies are legit and that perhaps the OT was a 'sign of things to come', but trying to put it together makes no sense, to me anyway.

Thanks for helping though. A few years ago, I would have been right there with you 'fighting for the cause'... I was a staunch evangelical bible-thumping Christian... it was my way of thinking or you were going to hell. In light of all I have researched now, I just can't be like that anymore.

I still profess a love for Christ and I still follow the commands of love thy GOD with all thy heart and love thy neighbor as thyself (among others). But to say that the Bible is the ALL for godliness, I just can't do it anymore.

[CrackedCat]

Crackedcat:


Majeston:
God afflicted my cousin with cancer for two reasons.
First to warn him of his need to accept Christ and make him think about what would happen when
he died, and second to take his life.
The biblical text speaks of "a sin unto death". This sin is different for each individual, in my cousins
case he lived for his own pleasure and gave no thought to what would happen after he died, until
he was diagnosd with cancer. Then he had to face the issue. This also goes in to the doctrine of
election.
The biblical text also states that vines are pruned that do not produce fruit. My cousin was not
producing fruit. For all of us who knew him, the loss of him among us was a painful, but important
lesson in this matter.
He accepted Christ before his death, now he is with Christ in heaven.
Hope this helps.
.......Over the years I have read over 3000 books on many
subjects, even now I find that the things that I understand are small compared with the things I
do not understand. Therefore each day is a search for additonal data. Each of you are a good source
of said data.

Thank you for presenting your positions.

Fetapro my friend,
perhaps, you have mis-interpreted the lesson and the schooling continues......

consider the following....



147.3.3 In speaking to those assembled, Jesus said: “Many of you are here, sick and afflicted, because of your many years of wrong living. Some suffer from the accidents of time, others as a result of the mistakes of their forebears, while some of you struggle under the handicaps of the imperfect conditions of your temporal existence. But my Father works, and I would work, to improve your earthly state but more especially to insure your eternal estate. None of us can do much to change the difficulties of life unless we discover the Father in heaven so wills. After all, we are all beholden to do the will of the Eternal. If you could all be healed of your physical afflictions, you would indeed marvel, but it is even greater that you should be cleansed of all spiritual disease and find yourselves healed of all moral infirmities. You are all God’s children; you are the sons of the heavenly Father. The bonds of time may seem to afflict you, but the God of eternity loves you. And when the time of judgment shall come, fear not, you shall all find, not only justice, but an abundance of mercy. Verily, verily, I say to you: He who hears the gospel of the kingdom and believes in this teaching of sonship with God, has eternal life; already are such believers passing from judgment and death to light and life. And the hour is coming in which even those who are in the tombs shall hear the voice of the resurrection.”


>>>>>>>>>>>



190.5.4 As they walked along, Jesus said to them: “How slow you are to comprehend the truth! When you tell me that it is about the teachings and work of this man that you have your discussions, then may I enlighten you since I am more than familiar with these teachings. Do you not remember that this Jesus always taught that his kingdom was not of this world, and that all men, being the sons of God, should find liberty and freedom in the spiritual joy of the fellowship of the brotherhood of loving service in this new kingdom of the truth of the heavenly Father’s love? Do you not recall how this Son of Man proclaimed the salvation of God for all men, ministering to the sick and afflicted and setting free those who were bound by fear and enslaved by evil? Do you not know that this man of Nazareth told his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem, be delivered up to his enemies, who would put him to death, and that he would arise on the third day? Have you not been told all this? And have you never read in the Scriptures concerning this day of salvation for Jew and gentile, where it says that in him shall all the families of the earth be blessed; that he will hear the cry of the needy and save the souls of the poor who seek him; that all nations shall call him blessed? That such a Deliverer shall be as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. That he will feed the flock like a true shepherd, gathering the lambs in his arms and tenderly carrying them in his bosom. That he will open the eyes of the spiritually blind and bring the prisoners of despair out into full liberty and light; that all who sit in darkness shall see the great light of eternal salvation. That he will bind up the brokenhearted, proclaim liberty to the captives of sin, and open up the prison to those who are enslaved by fear and bound by evil. That he will comfort those who mourn and bestow upon them the joy of salvation in the place of sorrow and heaviness. That he shall be the desire of all nations and the everlasting joy of those who seek righteousness. That this Son of truth and righteousness shall rise upon the world with healing light and saving power; even that he will save his people from their sins; that he will really seek and save those who are lost. That he will not destroy the weak but minister salvation to all who hunger and thirst for righteousness. That those who believe in him shall have eternal life. That he will pour out his spirit upon all flesh, and that this Spirit of Truth shall be in each believer a well of water, springing up into everlasting life. Did you not understand how great was the gospel of the kingdom which this man delivered to you? Do you not perceive how great a salvation has come upon you?”



http://www.truthbook.com/

Majeston, no disrepect here, but where does this information come from? Where does the book you quote come from??

I am just curious because I find it very interesting. Thanks!!

[Majeston]

Meredith Sprunger has a pretty accurate history, link
CrackedCat..... you might find this pretty interesting.....

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pjawors ... ricity.htm



send me a pm if you wish to discuss more

best wishes

[Bob137]

I have read the Bible from beginning to end a few times myself. My view is that it has tales of horendous cases done to mankind, by aliens that were worshiped as though they were God! My belief is that God is a Consciousness of pure light, not material existence, or has interjection into humanity whatsoever. That GOD has and never will do anything to anyone other than grant them the gift of the Christ Consciousness and grace of GOD! That anything else has always been done by ET's Jesus was a hybrid or actual ET his mother artificially inseminated by ET', (The innacurate conception)!s. Those might have been the good Elohim, and not the other ET's, yet still done by ET's The things he spoke of was of what is from GOD is called the Christ Consciousness, it is available to anyone, and everyone, by the grace of God, numerous people throughout history have received this very same thing, I for one also! It can be that he mastered it, and was killed for it, but the Christ Consciousness is the son of GOD,not Jesus, he was just another receiver of the gift of the Christ Consciousness that anyone can receive! This is just my opinion, but if someone dies no matter what way they die, GOd has nothing whatsoever to do with it! All the wars, the diseases, etc.. are either done by man, or ET's not GOD! I do not blame GOD for anything, all GOD did was create the universes, the dimensions, time/space, and the consciousnesses of the Cosmic Conscious of all beings, which the Elohim, (spirit conscious ethereal beings), created the material beings and the material beings became advanced enough to create some of their own, which is what we are, but are minds, our consciousness came from the cosmic consciousness! WE are what we are! Hybrid stinky monkey people!

[Majeston]

WE are what we are! Hybrid stinky monkey people!

Bob,
you have such a way with words.






111:7.1 Uncertainty with security is the essence of the Paradise adventure—uncertainty in time and in mind, uncertainty as to the events of the unfolding Paradise ascent; security in spirit and in eternity, security in the unqualified trust of the creature son in the divine compassion and infinite love of the Universal Father; uncertainty as an inexperienced citizen of the universe; security as an ascending son in the universe mansions of an all-powerful, all-wise, and all-loving Father.

111:7.2 May I admonish you to heed the distant echo of the Adjuster's faithful call to your soul? The indwelling Adjuster cannot stop or even materially alter your career struggle of time; the Adjuster cannot lessen the hardships of life as you journey on through this world of toil. The divine indweller can only patiently forbear while you fight the battle of life as it is lived on your planet; but you could, if you only would—as you work and worry, as you fight and toil—permit the valiant Adjuster to fight with you and for you. You could be so comforted and inspired, so enthralled and intrigued, if you would only allow the Adjuster constantly to bring forth the pictures of the real motive, the final aim, and the eternal purpose of all this difficult, uphill struggle with the commonplace problems of your present material world.

111:7.3 Why do you not aid the Adjuster in the task of showing you the spiritual counterpart of all these strenuous material efforts? Why do you not allow the Adjuster to strengthen you with the spiritual truths of cosmic power while you wrestle with the temporal difficulties of creature existence? Why do you not encourage the heavenly helper to cheer you with the clear vision of the eternal outlook of universal life as you gaze in perplexity at the problems of the passing hour? Why do you refuse to be enlightened and inspired by the universe viewpoint while you toil amidst the handicaps of time and flounder in the maze of uncertainties which beset your mortal life journey? Why not allow the Adjuster to spiritualize your thinking, even though your feet must tread the material paths of earthly endeavor?

[CrackedCat]

I was watching a rerun of Angels and Aliens (Ancient Aliens) last night and they made quite an awesome point, which does give credance to the idea that the gods of the OT (at least) were AA's.

The idea that 'god' would order Abraham to kill Isaac goes TOTALLY against everything that is Christian and godlike. God preaches THOU SHALL NOT KILL, yet there he was about to kill Isaac. 'God' is supposed to not have a double standard. Miraculously, an 'angel' stops him in time.

This to me, is the actual showing of the idea behind 2 different kinds of gods (AA's) in the OT. The ones with an evil agenda and the ones that help mankind. Clearly something other than our benevelant god of the bible is telling him to do something wrong. And then the 'good' come and make it right.

The "nasty" gods (AA's) of the OT are put straight by the loving god, Christ, in the NT.

That's how I see it anyway.

[Majeston]

I was watching a rerun of Angels and Aliens (Ancient Aliens) last night and they made quite an awesome point, which does give credance to the idea that the gods of the OT (at least) were AA's.

The idea that 'god' would order Abraham to kill Isaac goes TOTALLY against everything that is Christian and godlike. God preaches THOU SHALL NOT KILL, yet there he was about to kill Isaac. 'God' is supposed to not have a double standard. Miraculously, an 'angel' stops him in time.

This to me, is the actual showing of the idea behind 2 different kinds of gods (AA's) in the OT. The ones with an evil agenda and the ones that help mankind. Clearly something other than our benevelant god of the bible is telling him to do something wrong. And then the 'good' come and make it right.

The "nasty" gods (AA's) of the OT are put straight by the loving god, Christ, in the NT.

That's how I see it anyway.

CrackedCat my discerning friend, perhaps the whole story is incorrect and even the AA's are not to blame for such nonsense. Perhaps what really happened was that God actually did speak to Abraham and the conversation went something like WTF are you doing you nitwit, are you crazy? Consider the following........



6. EVOLUTION OF HUMAN SACRIFICE

89:6.1 Human sacrifice was an indirect result of cannibalism as well as its cure. Providing spirit escorts to the spirit world also led to the lessening of man-eating as it was never the custom to eat these death sacrifices. No race has been entirely free from the practice of human sacrifice in some form and at some time, even though the Andonites, Nodites, and Adamites were the least addicted to cannibalism.

89:6.2 Human sacrifice has been virtually universal; it persisted in the religious customs of the Chinese, Hindus, Egyptians, Hebrews, Mesopotamians, Greeks, Romans, and many other peoples, even on to recent times among the backward African and Australian tribes. The later American Indians had a civilization emerging from cannibalism and, therefore, steeped in human sacrifice, especially in Central and South America. The Chaldeans were among the first to abandon the sacrificing of humans for ordinary occasions, substituting therefor animals. About two thousand years ago a tenderhearted Japanese emperor introduced clay images to take the place of human sacrifices, but it was less than a thousand years ago that these sacrifices died out in northern Europe. Among certain backward tribes, human sacrifice is still carried on by volunteers, a sort of religious or ritual suicide. A shaman once ordered the sacrifice of a much respected old man of a certain tribe. The people revolted; they refused to obey. Whereupon the old man had his own son dispatch him; the ancients really believed in this custom.

89:6.3 There is no more tragic and pathetic experience on record, illustrative of the heart-tearing contentions between ancient and time-honored religious customs and the contrary demands of advancing civilization, than the Hebrew narrative of Jephthah and his only daughter. As was common custom, this well-meaning man had made a foolish vow, had bargained with the "god of battles," agreeing to pay a certain price for victory over his enemies. And this price was to make a sacrifice of that which first came out of his house to meet him when he returned to his home. Jephthah thought that one of his trusty slaves would thus be on hand to greet him, but it turned out that his daughter and only child came out to welcome him home. And so, even at that late date and among a supposedly civilized people, this beautiful maiden, after two months to mourn her fate, was actually offered as a human sacrifice by her father, and with the approval of his fellow tribesmen. And all this was done in the face of Moses' stringent rulings against the offering of human sacrifice. But men and women are addicted to making foolish and needless vows, and the men of old held all such pledges to be highly sacred.

89:6.4 In olden times, when a new building of any importance was started, it was customary to slay a human being as a "foundation sacrifice." This provided a ghost spirit to watch over and protect the structure. When the Chinese made ready to cast a bell, custom decreed the sacrifice of at least one maiden for the purpose of improving the tone of the bell; the girl chosen was thrown alive into the molten metal.

89:6.5 It was long the practice of many groups to build slaves alive into important walls. In later times the northern Europe tribes substituted the walling in of the shadow of a passerby for this custom of entombing living persons in the walls of new buildings. The Chinese buried in a wall those workmen who died while constructing it.

89:6.6 A petty king in Palestine. in building the walls of Jericho, "laid the foundation thereof in Abiram, his first-born, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son, Segub." At that late date, not only did this father put two of his sons alive in the foundation holes of the city's gates, but his action is also recorded as being "according to the word of the Lord." Moses had forbidden these foundation sacrifices, but the Israelites reverted to them soon after his death. The twentieth-century ceremony of depositing trinkets and keepsakes in the cornerstone of a new building is reminiscent of the primitive foundation sacrifices.

89:6.7 It was long the custom of many peoples to dedicate the first fruits to the spirits. And these observances, now more or less symbolic, are all survivals of the early ceremonies involving human sacrifice. The idea of offering the first-born as a sacrifice was widespread among the ancients, especially among the Phoenicians, who were the last to give it up. It used to be said upon sacrificing, "life for life." Now you say at death, "dust to dust."

89:6.8 The spectacle of Abraham constrained to sacrifice his son Isaac, while shocking to civilized susceptibilities, was not a new or strange idea to the men of those days. It was long a prevalent practice for fathers, at times of great emotional stress, to sacrifice their first-born sons. Many peoples have a tradition analogous to this story, for there once existed a world-wide and profound belief that it was necessary to offer a human sacrifice when anything extraordinary or unusual happened.

>>>>>>>>>
93.9.4 But Abraham was not long to be deterred in his mission as the successor of Melchizedek. Soon he made converts among the Philistines and of Abimelech’s people, made a treaty with them, and, in turn, became contaminated with many of their superstitions, particularly with their practice of sacrificing first-born sons. Thus did Abraham again become a great leader in Palestine. He was held in reverence by all groups and honored by all kings. He was the spiritual leader of all the surrounding tribes, and his influence continued for some time after his death. During the closing years of his life he once more returned to Hebron, the scene of his earlier activities and the place where he had worked in association with Melchizedek. Abraham’s last act was to send trusty servants to the city of his brother, Nahor, on the border of Mesopotamia, to secure a woman of his own people as a wife for his son Isaac. It had long been the custom of Abraham’s people to marry their cousins. And Abraham died confident in that faith in God which he had learned from Melchizedek in the vanished schools of Salem.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

97.5.6 Ever the burden of Micah’s message was: “Shall I come before God with burnt offerings? Will the Lord be pleased with a thousand rams or with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown me, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” And it was a great age; these were indeed stirring times when mortal man heard, and some even believed, such emancipating messages more than two and a half millenniums ago. And but for the stubborn resistance of the priests, these teachers would have overthrown the whole bloody ceremonial of the Hebrew ritual of worship.


>>>>>>>>>
and more......

7. MODIFICATIONS OF HUMAN SACRIFICE
>>>>>>>

http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1336#U89_6_7



.

[3d monkey]

WE are what we are! Hybrid stinky monkey people!

Orion = Urian = Aryan

Hell's bell!

[CrackedCat]

I was watching a rerun of Angels and Aliens (Ancient Aliens) last night and they made quite an awesome point, which does give credance to the idea that the gods of the OT (at least) were AA's.

The idea that 'god' would order Abraham to kill Isaac goes TOTALLY against everything that is Christian and godlike. God preaches THOU SHALL NOT KILL, yet there he was about to kill Isaac. 'God' is supposed to not have a double standard. Miraculously, an 'angel' stops him in time.

This to me, is the actual showing of the idea behind 2 different kinds of gods (AA's) in the OT. The ones with an evil agenda and the ones that help mankind. Clearly something other than our benevelant god of the bible is telling him to do something wrong. And then the 'good' come and make it right.

The "nasty" gods (AA's) of the OT are put straight by the loving god, Christ, in the NT.

That's how I see it anyway.

CrackedCat my discerning friend, perhaps the whole story is incorrect and even the AA's are not to blame for such nonsense. Perhaps what really happened was that God actually did speak to Abraham and the conversation went something like WTF are you doing you nitwit, are you crazy? Consider the following........



6. EVOLUTION OF HUMAN SACRIFICE

89:6.1 Human sacrifice was an indirect result of cannibalism as well as its cure. Providing spirit escorts to the spirit world also led to the lessening of man-eating as it was never the custom to eat these death sacrifices. No race has been entirely free from the practice of human sacrifice in some form and at some time, even though the Andonites, Nodites, and Adamites were the least addicted to cannibalism.

89:6.2 Human sacrifice has been virtually universal; it persisted in the religious customs of the Chinese, Hindus, Egyptians, Hebrews, Mesopotamians, Greeks, Romans, and many other peoples, even on to recent times among the backward African and Australian tribes. The later American Indians had a civilization emerging from cannibalism and, therefore, steeped in human sacrifice, especially in Central and South America. The Chaldeans were among the first to abandon the sacrificing of humans for ordinary occasions, substituting therefor animals. About two thousand years ago a tenderhearted Japanese emperor introduced clay images to take the place of human sacrifices, but it was less than a thousand years ago that these sacrifices died out in northern Europe. Among certain backward tribes, human sacrifice is still carried on by volunteers, a sort of religious or ritual suicide. A shaman once ordered the sacrifice of a much respected old man of a certain tribe. The people revolted; they refused to obey. Whereupon the old man had his own son dispatch him; the ancients really believed in this custom.

89:6.3 There is no more tragic and pathetic experience on record, illustrative of the heart-tearing contentions between ancient and time-honored religious customs and the contrary demands of advancing civilization, than the Hebrew narrative of Jephthah and his only daughter. As was common custom, this well-meaning man had made a foolish vow, had bargained with the "god of battles," agreeing to pay a certain price for victory over his enemies. And this price was to make a sacrifice of that which first came out of his house to meet him when he returned to his home. Jephthah thought that one of his trusty slaves would thus be on hand to greet him, but it turned out that his daughter and only child came out to welcome him home. And so, even at that late date and among a supposedly civilized people, this beautiful maiden, after two months to mourn her fate, was actually offered as a human sacrifice by her father, and with the approval of his fellow tribesmen. And all this was done in the face of Moses' stringent rulings against the offering of human sacrifice. But men and women are addicted to making foolish and needless vows, and the men of old held all such pledges to be highly sacred.

89:6.4 In olden times, when a new building of any importance was started, it was customary to slay a human being as a "foundation sacrifice." This provided a ghost spirit to watch over and protect the structure. When the Chinese made ready to cast a bell, custom decreed the sacrifice of at least one maiden for the purpose of improving the tone of the bell; the girl chosen was thrown alive into the molten metal.

89:6.5 It was long the practice of many groups to build slaves alive into important walls. In later times the northern Europe tribes substituted the walling in of the shadow of a passerby for this custom of entombing living persons in the walls of new buildings. The Chinese buried in a wall those workmen who died while constructing it.

89:6.6 A petty king in Palestine. in building the walls of Jericho, "laid the foundation thereof in Abiram, his first-born, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son, Segub." At that late date, not only did this father put two of his sons alive in the foundation holes of the city's gates, but his action is also recorded as being "according to the word of the Lord." Moses had forbidden these foundation sacrifices, but the Israelites reverted to them soon after his death. The twentieth-century ceremony of depositing trinkets and keepsakes in the cornerstone of a new building is reminiscent of the primitive foundation sacrifices.

89:6.7 It was long the custom of many peoples to dedicate the first fruits to the spirits. And these observances, now more or less symbolic, are all survivals of the early ceremonies involving human sacrifice. The idea of offering the first-born as a sacrifice was widespread among the ancients, especially among the Phoenicians, who were the last to give it up. It used to be said upon sacrificing, "life for life." Now you say at death, "dust to dust."

89:6.8 The spectacle of Abraham constrained to sacrifice his son Isaac, while shocking to civilized susceptibilities, was not a new or strange idea to the men of those days. It was long a prevalent practice for fathers, at times of great emotional stress, to sacrifice their first-born sons. Many peoples have a tradition analogous to this story, for there once existed a world-wide and profound belief that it was necessary to offer a human sacrifice when anything extraordinary or unusual happened.

>>>>>>>>>
93.9.4 But Abraham was not long to be deterred in his mission as the successor of Melchizedek. Soon he made converts among the Philistines and of Abimelech’s people, made a treaty with them, and, in turn, became contaminated with many of their superstitions, particularly with their practice of sacrificing first-born sons. Thus did Abraham again become a great leader in Palestine. He was held in reverence by all groups and honored by all kings. He was the spiritual leader of all the surrounding tribes, and his influence continued for some time after his death. During the closing years of his life he once more returned to Hebron, the scene of his earlier activities and the place where he had worked in association with Melchizedek. Abraham’s last act was to send trusty servants to the city of his brother, Nahor, on the border of Mesopotamia, to secure a woman of his own people as a wife for his son Isaac. It had long been the custom of Abraham’s people to marry their cousins. And Abraham died confident in that faith in God which he had learned from Melchizedek in the vanished schools of Salem.

>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

97.5.6 Ever the burden of Micah’s message was: “Shall I come before God with burnt offerings? Will the Lord be pleased with a thousand rams or with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown me, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” And it was a great age; these were indeed stirring times when mortal man heard, and some even believed, such emancipating messages more than two and a half millenniums ago. And but for the stubborn resistance of the priests, these teachers would have overthrown the whole bloody ceremonial of the Hebrew ritual of worship.


>>>>>>>>>
and more......

7. MODIFICATIONS OF HUMAN SACRIFICE
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http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1336#U89_6_7



.

Just curious, do you believe there are AA's with alternative and not-so-nice agendas??

[Majeston]

Cat,

there were, but not anymore.

[Fetapro]

Hold those thoughts. I am following the thread, but I am working on something else at the moment. I will return to the thread as soon as possible.

Thanks

[CrackedCat]

Cat,

there were, but not anymore.

Then can I ask how you would explain alien abductions, cattle mutilations, etc?

I believe they will all come back, the good and the bad. That perhaps that is the 'final war' that is spoken of in so many religions. Just as it was in the beginning, it shall be at the end.