Aliens and Sacred Spaces

[Bob137]

From what I have leaned is that the ET's believed in a Supreme Cosmic Consciousness that created everything from itself, the all, and is the all of everything, in other words, from GOD'S thoughts everything came into being. So everything came from and is a part of the All. For all is one!

[Gemini]

I liked this episode. I'm familiar with the sites, but good to see again. I'm glad that AA covered Islam.

[seeker1117]

Just an FYI, but Castaneda made up everything and don Juan wasn't a real person. I'm writing a bio-pic on him.

I believe that escotsmith has addressed your comment quite well..I hope your 'biopic' takes into consideration these thoughts about the value of Casteneda's work, and does not turn out just a "he was a fake" hatchet-job:

@dreamoutloud, I think we can all agree that the writings of Don Juan were not based in reality, but spiritually they are profound. I never thought for a second Don Juan was real, but I never questioned Casteneda's liberal infusion of various mystic teachings within his parables. He was able to consolidate within his novels some very real truths. Just by reading his parables, he was touching the very fabric of your soul.

Bob, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the terminology. I get antsy when the "g" word is used so voraciously, with lots of capital letters...

And golly, guess I did goof on the title. Oopsie. Have a nice day.

[Bob137]

I understand, as I stated prior this is just my concept of it from my studies, and research, and experience. It might be something more on a psychedelic experience he was writing about, than an actual experience without drugs. Hallucinogens can make people experience all sorts of things, that may be considered more of a forced experience than a natural or spiritual experience.

[escotsmith]

Bob137 has it completely right about Casteneda. He was experimenting with hallucinogenics, and had really profound spiritual encounters with Mescilito. He was on his own personal journey towards his own belief system, and he was successful. His psychedelic experiences revealed to him extraordinary insights into the World's underlining truth that goes beyond the mainstream religious establishment.

[dreamoutloud]

Just an FYI, but Castaneda made up everything and don Juan wasn't a real person. I'm writing a bio-pic on him.

I believe that escotsmith has addressed your comment quite well..I hope your 'biopic' takes into consideration these thoughts about the value of Casteneda's work, and does not turn out just a "he was a fake" hatchet-job:

It's actually more about his hypocrisy as a "guru" and his cult as told by one of his lovers and cult members, bestselling author Amy Wallace, a dear friend of mine, from her book The Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda.

[escotsmith]

Sounds like an interesting read.

[dreamoutloud]

Sounds like an interesting read.

It really is and I'd love to discuss it more, but I feel like I'm hijacking the thread.

Back to Ancient Aliens & Sacred Places!!

I can't stop thinking about the Black Stone in Mecca and the belief that it has healing properties. Is that just mind over matter or can a stone actually have healing properties? It reminds me of something called "bleeding stones" - black rocks that when rubbed actually bleed red. They also supposedly have healing properties. Is it alien technology or something else or just a mass delusion?

I recall reading something about the Black Stone on www.shadowtheatre13.com, but the site is so vast, a cursory search resulted in me not finding it...

I really wish they would allow for it to be tested. I'm dying to know if it really is a meteorite.

[escotsmith]

Don't worry about highjacking the forum. Tell us what you know. It would very interesting to know about the man behind the myth.

[Bob137]

Another is the precious Ring, the ring of Solomon. A ring that can control the demons and build megalithic temples?

[Moon]

There is another very interesting part of the show that I did not address earlier: The importance of the star Canopus. Could this be another possible location of our ancient visitors?

I would really love a future episode to delve further on possible star systems our visitors possibly came from based on ancient alignments.

[Bob137]

I read a book on sacred places about 20 years ago, that had connections of numerous sites across vast distances, such as around the Meditteranean there was from France, to England, and Egypt, and Greece. I do not remember what book it was, but it was an interesting read on how these sites connection geometrically and with the North, South, East, West points.

[dreamoutloud]

I would really love a future episode to delve further on possible star systems our visitors possibly came from based on ancient alignments.

Me too! I love this idea and would definitely like to see an episode addressing all possible ancient alien origins.

[ke5ehi]

I really wish they would allow for it to be tested. I'm dying to know if it really is a meteorite.

Me too, but can you image the ramifications if they tested it and the guys goes to make his official press statement.

Geologist Guy: Yes, we've completed our analysis of this stone and have found it to be from that field *points over there*. Just a plain 'ol rock.

And then mass chaos ensues...

[escotsmith]

@ke5ehi and dreamoutloud, I totally agree. I would love for some real scientific testing regarding the meteorite that allegedly landed in Mecca. And you are totally right, Ke5ehi, mass panic and bloodshed would you ensue, if the rock ended up being just a plain old rock. Let us not forget the Danish cartoon fiasco.

[Believer]

the Buddhist Cave Canyon in India was also a surprise to me, I new of it, and seen a picture of one small area outside of the caves, but that was the first I had ever seen what is inside them. That is the most fascinating find to me, for them to carve out such spectacular areas and so large, and detailed. In my opinion it would take thousands of years, without some advanced technologies to be able to create such a masterpiece!

I've been there (and to the Ellora caves as well which is within a few kilometers to the Ajanta caves though the episode did not talk about them. Ellora also has more Hindu caves than Buddhist one's and also a few Jain one's though I don't remember the exact numbers now)2 or 3 times

[Bob137]

Wow, I would love to go there, and see them. Thanks for the info!

[Believer]

Wow, I would love to go there, and see them. Thanks for the info!

mate, you would get tired walking through all the caves. Gotta do it over a period of 2-3 days if you want to see all of them. However, you could elect to see just a few main one's.
Ellora caves are supposed to be an exercise of tolerance and acceptance because of Hindu, Buddhist and Jain caves existing side by side. While Jainism and Buddhism have a few common traits betwene themselves and with Hinduism, both of them are opposed to the Hindu beliefs of statue worship etc. and in fact both are offshoots of Hinduism, in a loosely put way..just opposed to the older form of rituals of Hinduism and idol worship etc. Buddha had explicitly forbidden constructing idols of him that's why some stupas don't have any statues at all..if I recall the chapter of school history
I think the Hindu caves at Ellora came first and the Buddihst and Jain caves followed suit although again, that's based on school history memory which isn't the strongest

[Bob137]

Yes, it is one thing, to have reverence, respect, and appreciate someones insight, but to worship one is another thing all together. When I see people praying to things or space.sky Gods, I wonder where there head is really at.

[Moon]

@ke5ehi and dreamoutloud, I totally agree. I would love for some real scientific testing regarding the meteorite that allegedly landed in Mecca. And you are totally right, Ke5ehi, mass panic and bloodshed would you ensue, if the rock ended up being just a plain old rock. Let us not forget the Danish cartoon fiasco.

While I would love for the rock (meteor) to be tested, I don't think they would be able to find out what star system it possibly came from.

I do remember reading a book that stated there is a large green rock underneath that large building in Mecca and that it was considered sacred for a time much earlier than Islam. I have to search for that book now (I really need to get me some bookshelves!) so I can put the information I read up here.

The alignment of the building to Canopus is what really intrigues me now.

[escotsmith]

@maxmercury: I agree. I assume you are speaking of the Kaabah that was said to be built by Isaac and Ishmael, before Ishmael and Haggar were banished by Abraham. If that is truly the case, where did they find the Kaabah, and how would they know it was the alleged stone written by Ishmael and Isaac? One would suspect that the Torah would mention the story, but there is no evidence in the Bible. But, that is not to say it could not have happened. However, Abraham left his home,which was in the ancient city of Ur, and left for the Holy Land, present day Israel. So, it would be interesting to know if Ishmael took the stone with him, or made a replica during his exile. It is most likely that Ishmael took his father's monotheistic beliefs with him on his sojourn, and possibly used the Kaabah to convert the pagan tribes living in ancient Arabia. Hence, that would explain, as well as the Jews' precence, Muhammad's infusion of Judaism in his own belief system. But, we will never know about this archeological wonder. Religions guard their so called religious artifacts with such militancy that no concrete science can validate their teachings. So, we are left to speculate. How I would love to enter the Church of the Holy Virgin Mary, and witness the remains of the Ark of the Covenant. Do you know it said that those monks who look upon the ark eventually lose their sight after many years? They say it literally burns their eyes.

[Moon]

As the episode showed us at other sites, it is possible the sacred site at Mecca is much older than Abraham. I have to find the book that this site is referenced in so I can put out more information.

We did see that one sacred city that had the ancient ruins dated 9,000 years and older.

[Theory]

I liked this episode, and I really learned alot from it..finally! For example I did not know the muslims worship or whatever, over a rock...to me it looked like an obsidian type rock. Then the cliff with the budda things was pretty cool(sorry I can't remember what everything was called, I'll probably have to watch it again to memorize the info). The only thing that gets me, is the fact that all the these buildings point to some star or constellation and people make a big deal about it, to me thats not a big deal, because of course every building will point or align with something, whether or not it was on purpose or coincidence I do not know, unless they wrote it somewhere saying they did that on purpose then yeah it would be something to ponder. I mean, for example if my house or one out of thousands churches was left standing, from a thousand years from now, would the future people say oh look it aligns with this, and the sun shines through this way during this time, so it must have been built according to this observation because our generation was into astrology(and all they had for info about our generation was some drawings, a few monuments, and a story), which of course would be wrong. Just my two cents worth;)

[cRush]

I liked this episode, and I really learned alot from it..finally! For example I did not know the muslims worship or whatever, over a rock...to me it looked like an obsidian type rock. Then the cliff with the budda things was pretty cool(sorry I can't remember what everything was called, I'll probably have to watch it again to memorize the info). The only thing that gets me, is the fact that all the these buildings point to some star or constellation and people make a big deal about it, to me thats not a big deal, because of course every building will point or align with something, whether or not it was on purpose or coincidence I do not know, unless they wrote it somewhere saying they did that on purpose then yeah it would be something to ponder. I mean, for example if my house or one out of thousands churches was left standing, from a thousand years from now, would the future people say oh look it aligns with this, and the sun shines through this way during this time, so it must have been built according to this observation because our generation was into astrology(and all they had for info about our generation was some drawings, a few monuments, and a story), which of course would be wrong. Just my two cents worth;)

This is what I have been trying to say for awhile. To me, most of these "astronomical alignments" are pure coincidence. They HAD to line up with some star on some line. A line is always between two points. 1 point being the structure/vantage point/monument and the other point being the star. Unless there are ancient texts lending credence to the idea that they purposely aligned the structure with that star, I find it highly circumstantial.

I could go outside, drop a rock on the ground, and it will align perfectly with some star, somewhere in the universe.

[Bob137]

The majority of the places that are referred to most all align with one constellation, which makes it unusual, the constellation is Orion! Others that align with other places, are usually in a uniformity with others of the area. It is when they many match one constellation that brings up the theories of alignment, not just one aligning with one constellation, and another with another.

[Moon]

This is what I have been trying to say for awhile. To me, most of these "astronomical alignments" are pure coincidence. They HAD to line up with some star on some line. A line is always between two points. 1 point being the structure/vantage point/monument and the other point being the star. Unless there are ancient texts lending credence to the idea that they purposely aligned the structure with that star, I find it highly circumstantial.

I could go outside, drop a rock on the ground, and it will align perfectly with some star, somewhere in the universe.

If it were only one or two monuments aligned to major stars like Canopus, Sirius, Polaris or other known stars, then I would accept coincidence as a possibility.

The problem with coincidence is these alignments are not to just any old star, but known ones used for navigation or for the coming of seasons/calendar use. I do think using the term coincidence in these cases is an easy way out and does not look at the big picture.

Many dedicated researchers have spent a long time working on this and their conclusions do merit a serious look.

[Theory]

The majority of the places that are referred to most all align with one constellation, which makes it unusual, the constellation is Orion! Others that align with other places, are usually in a uniformity with others of the area. It is when they many match one constellation that brings up the theories of alignment, not just one aligning with one constellation, and another with another.

I get what your saying, but.....how many modern day buildings(including houses, churches, monuments, ect.) are aligned with orion or other well known stars or aligned with the solstices, ect? a couple, hundred, thousands, millions? Most of those would be coincidences. I do think its a good possibilty that they were aligned on purpose, but I'm not going to throw out the possibilty of it being coincidences either, when there's no concrete proof for either side.

[Bob137]

The building projects of today do not set their buildings up to align with star systems, that practice is only of old ancient civilizations. The actual aligning up with star systems is not just a coincidence, where one or two stars are laid out, but such as Orion along with the positioning of the Milky Way. The Mayans laid their cities out with the sun and moon, and constellations, ie the Sun pyramid, and the Moon pyramid. Maybe you should do a search on the subject, and you may be able to get a whole lot more information to make a decision about the subject.

[Gemini]

The temple at Denderah and at Angkor Wat are both dedicated to astronomy and have intentional astronomical alignments.

[thesaint]

Can someone tell me on which tablet of the epic of gilgamesh is Baalbek mentioned because i can't seem to find it. This is the first episode of the 3rd season that I have watched and i give it a 5 out of 10. to me there is too much speculation in this episode and not enough evidence to support such speculation. alot more could have been talked about in much more detail.

[Moon]

I get what your saying, but.....how many modern day buildings(including houses, churches, monuments, ect.) are aligned with orion or other well known stars or aligned with the solstices, ect? a couple, hundred, thousands, millions? Most of those would be coincidences. I do think its a good possibilty that they were aligned on purpose, but I'm not going to throw out the possibilty of it being coincidences either, when there's no concrete proof for either side.

I have about a dozen books that are dedicated to the idea of ancient monuments being aligned. When I get my bookshelves in, I plan on organizing the books and rereading some parts of them to show the research that has been done on this subject. I just don't think it should be dismissed even if there are discrepancies on some alignments.

Many authors out there have researched such alignments including Graham Hancock (who now disavows any such alignments), Robert Bauval, Christopher Dunn, Wayne Herschel, etc.

You are correct to want the evidence of such alignments, and I will see what strong evidence they put forth.

[Ace Rimmer]

...Loved it.

I had no idea about the Buddhist cave/canyon complex in India. The close-up's and zoom in shots of this location were simply spectacular. Baalbek I was somewhat familiar with already, but I never realized that in it's original design (pre-Heliopolis) it was layed out as some sort of platform construct, as stated by the show-very fascinating. The landing pad hypothesis sounds very plausible. The rock hewn churches in Lalibela were also quite impressive, I had no idea there were eleven of them! Amazing. It's hard to take in and digest all of the info in one sitting, atleast for me. I'll definitely be watching this episode again with my notepad handy.

Those places blew me away! Surprised they didn't mention Petra too.

I don't know as I completely believe Aliens were invovled, but there was some major technology involved.

The meteor/relic at Mecca, I wish it could be tested!

And landing pads..yes yes! I think more than a few ancient sites were landing pads for spaceships.

I can just "see" spaceships on top of step pyramids.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1211

[Masteroftracks]

What about Andrew Collins idea that the great pyramids are alined with Cygnus, not Orion. I never see anyone mentioning this. Why?

[cRush]

Actually the only thing there is a couple cranes that could lift them, but not transport them, the only things that could transport them, are the space shuttle movers, which are very, very slow moving, then again, to get both the biggest crane, and that mover to do this, would cost in the multi-millions, or billions of dollars, and that just ain't gonna happen, so to me, it is still impossible to do in our time, due to the cost basis. So the statements of that we cannot do this today, is still correct in that way!

I've proven this before, and I will prove it again. Bob137, it is not only possible to lift objects of more than 1500 tons, it is done routinely everyday. Furthermore, it does not cost multi-millions of dollars to move such an object once it has been placed on a platform with wheels. You don't need the biggest crane in the world to lift a 1500 ton block; crawler derrick cranes can lift up to 3500 tons. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crane_(machine) see Crawler crane)

We have about a dozen of these cranes at the yard I work. Here is one for sale in Germany: http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings ... D=7935125& Notice the capacity of 1600 tons. They cost about a million dollars from what I am told.

The "space shuttle movers" you speak of are also fairly inexpensive - probably in the range of a few million dollars. They could be rented for a month for probably $200,000. It is basically a platform on wheels. We have one at our yard which can be used for moving the oil platforms into position to be lifted onto barges which move them into position. You know, those oil platforms I mentioned that weigh up to 22,000 tons and can be lifted by a single crane? You see, we aren't talking about defying physics here, Bob137.

It would be impossible for the greedy billionaires to spend that kind of money on a project such as that, or even the pyramids, due to their psychotic natures, for greed for more, not spending it only giant projects, that would not bring in billions more. So it is still impossible, not just improbable. Getting a psychotic Billionaire to do anything that will not increase his wealth, is impossible!

It's funny that you retract your "it's impossible today because we don't have the technology" to "it's impossible today because no one would pay for it". I'm unsure what this is even supposed to prove. Are you trying to argue that the ancient Egyptians wouldn't have spent the needed resources to accomplish these huge tasks in their day simply because of their greed? On the contrary, the rules of Ancient Egypt funded these projects as A) a way to create jobs for their subjects; and B) the ultimate display of their power to the rest of the world.

Sure, you are correct in that today, no company would fund a project that would cost billions, but return nothing in revenue. That simply wasn't the case for the ancient Egyptians.

I'm just unsure why you continue to persist this fantasy that we simply cannot perform these tasks today, therefore the ancient people of Egypt certainly could not have performed them either. If you are of the opinion that the ancient's could not have accomplished these feats with the technology which we attribute to their timeline, then fine. Interjecting outright lies as evidence to support your theory is ridiculous. You only serve to discredit the theory, which might in fact be right so long as you abandon these absurd claims about our current state of technology which are undeniably incorrect.

[Bob137]

I am stating that for them to do it, that they would need equipment at least as good as ours. I have read and listened to engineers, on doing such tasks, and it would be possible, if they did not have to carry them miles across hills, and valleys, and mountains, and sand with no roads. Maybe they could just use a Chinook Helicopter and carry them, but is it feesible? I do not believe so. If the ancient had road systems as we do, I have only seen some instances in different places, but not from where this work was done. Some say well the Romans had cranes to lift heavy objects, (but they did not move, only lifted), and there is no proof the Egyptians, Mayans, Aztecs, or any others had the same technology, and still how did they move them. The ones in our times that have tried to move them over long distances on logs,and by boats made the same way were unsuccessful, so how did they do it if we cannot do it, the same way they would have done it, without modern equipment. So I guess I will eat my words, and not say we cannot do it today, but to do it, would take more money than anyone would put forth, even though some have put forth millions to try to prove we could do it, it was unsuccessful at a smaller scale. We could use our biggest and best technology, and all the money it would take and get'er done, but can we do it and be so precise in all the ways they were built, not just a faxcimile, but actually the same precision?