Skeptics

Did Aliens visit Earth in the remote past? Are modern UFO reports old news? Could the knowledge of apparently highly advanced technology in ancient civilizations be related to alien contact? Did ET visitors interfere with or influence human and cultural evolution? Did the "gods" come from outer space? You bet! This is the board to discuss mankind's cosmic past!

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Re: Skeptics

Postby gerhard1 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:49 pm

Mercury wrote:The Ancient Alien episode last night showed many of the elongated skulls. David Hatcher Childress made a comment about them being tested for DNA and the results showing other than full human results.

I would constitute that as hard evidence if they then interviewed the lab which did the work and what the results were. He left us guessing, and that was a big problem.
You bring up a very valid point here. We should be very careful about accepting second hand information as evidence, except in rare instances. The reason? One is that the evidence might very well be incomplete, or affected by the reporters agenda (if he or she has one), but the most important reason is that without the original source, it is much harder to ask approrpriate questions. Suppose that your late grandmother told you about a UFO that she saw. You decide to tell it to MUFON, let's say. Investigators might think the story was interesting but they can't question the original witness, thus their information is bound to be incomplete.

This is the reason that a court of law has the 'hearsay rule'. It is also the reason that many psychic researchers do not accept data from second, or remoter hands. There might be some exceptions to this, but as a general rule, my understanding is that they don't.

Another question occurs to me. Does 'non-human' necessarily mean "extra-terrestrial'?
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Moon » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:28 pm

Lloyd Pye has on his site all the DNA testing done on the Starchild Skull. He has the most detailed results so a specialist in the field can read them.

He is waiting more results and is trying to get funding put together for a genome to be done on it.

I think that would make a very interesting two hour special, but it would be very expensive to have done. It cost several million dollars to do the genome, and it would make many upset if it turned out the skull is not extraterrestrial.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby yerock III stoneman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:36 pm

Absolutely what Serene said! Unless youre extremely self-centered, brainwashed, living in a cave, ect., how can you doubt the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe?
My scenario involves the question of what would be incontrovertible evidence of Ancient Alien Contact here on earth.
Maxmercury just mentioned a skull, and hopefully the results of DNA testing will let us know one way or another if it's alien, although if it is alien, the results may still be inconclusive to us.
Hey, Gerhard1, you asked the questions I would've asked. And you give the answer, too! No, my story's not purely hypothetical. Yes, the " stone document" has already been found. Theres hasn't been a public unveiling or any peer reviewed papers yet.
While I overdramatized some facts about the ancients knowledge, the earth science recorded on the artifact are specific and amazing.
Instead of dozens of little stones that fit together like a rubics cube, someone inscribed dozens of images on one stone that may have been made pliable by heating the stone. In many cases only half of the image is inscribed - but they're from symmetrical designs - so by placing a mirror next to them, the whole image is displayed. Also, when the light source is changed, different images appear; one figure opens it's eyes!
The part in my story of an image showing ET threading DNA into humans is true, I didn't stretch anything there, and actually left some details out.
I'm of the opinion that theres an identical copy or more somewhere, the possessors may not know what it is or how to "make it work".
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Re: Skeptics

Postby gerhard1 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:34 am

Serene wrote:It absolutely blows my mind that there are people who more than readily believe that there is a benevolent (really? not accordingto the old testament) almighty god in the heavens and a burning hell below, but they cannot comprehend that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe alone.

How can anyone even for a nano second doubt that there is life beyond earth out there? I mean, how can you not believe that there is alien life out there and that they may very well have visited earth before?

Although I'd certainly love to, personally - I don't NEED to see "proof" of that. My simple rather uneducated mind tells me that the probability is beyond any reasonable doubt.


Without a shred of compelling evidence produced that shows that life exists elsewhere in the universe, I can very easily doubt it. It very well might, but that is speculation, and nothing more.

And assuming that it does exist, it does not mean that 'THEY' have been here. The big barrier to that, again assuming that ET life exists is the tremendous distances involved.

Have you heard of Fermi's Paradox? I'm sure that you have.

From wikipedia
The Fermi paradox (Fermi's paradox or Fermi-paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations.

How do advocates of ET life resolve the seeming contradiction?
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Re: Skeptics

Postby yerock III stoneman » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:15 pm

I look forward to the publication of this stone "document" too. You have no idea. It was found by me in Cape May Pt., New Jersey, and sits in a safety deposit box. Other than a couple of people from the US Geological Survey and some cartographers, the stone has only been closely examined by me. If I knew who to get involved, I would contact them.
It took me around 15 years to find the alien image, i'm slow, and even then I found out by mistake. When I turned an image I had found upsidedown, there it was. That was about 2 years ago. So, I hooked up with the web for the 1st time, and chose this site to talk about it and learn something, before going "public".
I've haphazardly posted some pix already. The thread "unusual stones from cape may" in the pictures forum has some background and photos of some of my finds, including this one. I was gonna start a thread in the non-fiction forum and post pix of the different images but the double posting rule makes it tough to document with lots of photos.
My signature pix comes from the stone.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Buzi-Blu » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:33 pm

Just as it would be arrogant to think we are somehow special and the only ones to exist in the universe, so too would it be arrogant to assume that life like us is commonplace. An octopus might think that octopuses should exist throughout the universe, but maybe there are no other octopuses because it took an incredibly unlikely series of events to create them. Instead there will be creatures with completely different attributes and specialities.

There is a huge step from life (as in any form of life) and technically advanced life, and another large step to get to interstellar travelling life. It is far from inevitable that extraterrestrials have visited earth, although I would guess that basic life is likely to be common.

I think I posted somewhere (previous account so cannot find it) about non-human DNA. It is very easy for the meaning to be distorted and give the impression of DNA being alien, rather than simply unidentified (too damaged). I forget the details, but it's something to be wary of.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Moon » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:58 pm

gerhard1 wrote:Have you heard of Fermi's Paradox? I'm sure that you have.

From wikipedia
The Fermi paradox (Fermi's paradox or Fermi-paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations.

How do advocates of ET life resolve the seeming contradiction?


Here is where assuming can get skeptics in trouble. The assumption is the ETs want to contact us. The other assumption is they are using radio waves similar to what we use on Earth.

They could of evolved a technology far different than what we are using here. They also could of evolved psychic abilities allowing them to travel anywhere in the Universe.

We really just don't know.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby gerhard1 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:19 am

Mercury wrote:
gerhard1 wrote:Have you heard of Fermi's Paradox? I'm sure that you have.

From wikipedia
The Fermi paradox (Fermi's paradox or Fermi-paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations.

How do advocates of ET life resolve the seeming contradiction?


Here is where assuming can get skeptics in trouble. The assumption is the ETs want to contact us. The other assumption is they are using radio waves similar to what we use on Earth.

They could of evolved a technology far different than what we are using here. They also could of evolved psychic abilities allowing them to travel anywhere in the Universe.

We really just don't know.

It seems as though you just made my point for me. That is that we all (skeptics and advocates alike) just don't know. Just as a few posters earlier in this thread feel beyond reasonable doubt that ET life exists, others feel that the case is far from proven and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

But it is a lot of fun to talk about, is it not? :mrgreen:
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alien communication

Postby phoenix » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:33 am

For what it’s worth. I strongly believe that the effort of the mainstream scientist’s to listen to radio communications from possible ET’s, are a waste of time and money. The aliens that we already have some knowledge of through ancient texts, stelas, wall-paintings and old buildings, was without doubt highly technologically advanced. They knew how to engineer biological life forms, they mastered the skills of travelling through interstellar space and they knew the secrets of all the forces in the universe. We know that the alien's mastered this great knowledge already some 20000 years ago, or even several hundred years ago if we should believe the sumerian king list.

It therefore seems a little strange if these advanced aliens was communicating with radios , using primitive radio waves. That is possibly the simple reason why we never did pick up a single radio signal from any of those aliens out there. As we also know from these ancient texts, are the fact that these aliens once used a lot of energy to remain as invisible and unseen as possible to mankind. That also seems to be the case now. They probably know about our radio signals and also our search for alien life. For some reason, they still chose not to answer.

Anyhow. The only alien communication device we know of , and have a wage description of is the ark of covenant described in several ancient texts. This device was a communication device that was designed to send live pictures and sound (and even send holographic pictures) from space to earth . They did not use radio waves to transmit such an enormous amount of data. How do we know that? We probably can make this conclusion because this specific communication device was powered by a radioactive source. We know that because the power that ran this device was sealed within a large container surrounded by lead. Thus we probably can assume that the device was powered by some kind of atomic fueled batteries. Thus we also can assume that they probably used some kind of laser technology to transmit the data, as this kind of technology demands lots of energy.

I know the SETI program have theorized about the use of alien laser transmissions . I do however don’t know if any attempts have been made to trace or search for such kind of interstellar data transmission. When one are using a laser to transfer data though a laser links, the data that are sent are sent in the direction the laser beam is pointed to. This technique is requiring a lot of energy . It would perhaps be hard to search for such data transmissions?. It could also be, that these technologically advanced aliens have built an interstellar network of communication satellites, using space mirrors to redirect laser beam data transmissions, making it simpel to rechannel the data in all possible directions. It could also be a possibility that there exist some kind of intergalactic GPS system out there?

It could even be possible that they moved on and that the laser technology that they once used now have become obsolete. Suppose that they did find a way to load and attach data to some suitable particles and even find a way to use the light itself to carry that information through the universe.

One thing is for sure. There simply have to be some kind of interstellar communication going on out there. We know that, because we know there are aliens out there. We are simply not advanced enough (yet) to pick up that communication.

Regardless of the alien transmitted data are some kind of biological data or some electronic bits and bytes , there probably also is a security issue. Thus we can assume that data that are transmitted throughout the universe are scrambled/unscrambled and possibly also compressed/uncompressed. It could even be that there exist some kind of interstellar firewall and that data that are transmitted through space follows a certain intergalactic standard.

I have myself no deep understanding in laser or radio wave technology and how it actually works in details. The above text is purely some personal high thinking and speculation of mine. I just realized that when one have kept on searching for alien radio communication for almost 50 years and found zero, it is about time to move on and rethink.

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Last edited by phoenix on Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:55 am

Agree

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I think we are still like Cavemen (no offense to Cavemen) compared to whatever kind of technology could be out there in Space. Things that we can't even begin to comprehend. I don't think we can apply our laws of physics to the entire Universe.
We just don't know what is possible, or not possible. Just my opinion.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby yerock III stoneman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:12 am

MetaMorphosis just quoted one of my favorite lines by that spear-shaker Francis Bacon,... nice one, Meta.
" If we don't find anything pleasant, at least we'll find something new " - Voltaire
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Don Morace » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:51 am

Hi Folks,Don here.Just read thru most of your posts and in general it sounds like most of you folks can't understand why after all the years of searching and searching, be it with radio waves or actual physical artifacts, that nothing has been discovered or heard.Look up"The Brookings' Report" on the internet and read it carefully,then you might grasp the reality that the PTB's don't want you to know the truth!Don out....................... :D ps Read Jim Marr's"Rule by Secrecy"
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Re: Skeptics

Postby yerock III stoneman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:39 am

Hey Don. A question for you. What happens to someone who comes forward with a convincing artifact of the AAT sort? What will the P'sTB do if two other people have corroborating evidence? Do they care that much about ancient contact? Religion as we know it might not necessarily come tumbling down, could even get a "bump" out of it.
No new technology, just a mind blowing revelation about our origins. Anyway, just wondering.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Buzi-Blu » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:25 am

Any ancient artifact that proves high technology does not in itself prove extraterrestrial contact. These could still be human or even some future creature to evolve from earth (if time travel was possible).

As for not receiving any signals from space - are we transmitting? No. Too costly, unproductive and dangerous, so why would anyone else out there do it? Far better to look for tell-tale accidental signs of (intelligent) life. One of the simplest is to look for low entropy states that would naturally quickly decay away (such as oxygen in the atmosphere).

Maybe it could be possible to progress the argument by speculating on possible lifeforms and motives for contact, and a what forms that contact could take. Huge amount of unknowns of course but some light may come of it. My thought about octopuses made me think of earth's complex mix of land and water - if it had been entirely water then maybe the octopuses would have been the dominant intelligent creature but imagine the challenges faced to ever leave the planet.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby yerock III stoneman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:30 pm

Hey Buzi. I agree with you on technology issues and the ET question.
My question was/is this:
If an artifact demonstrated that ancient alien contact and meddling had occurred, and it was somehow so conclusive that people from around the world actually agreed with those conclusions, would the P'sTB really care enough to do whatever it is that they do.
No technology secrets revealed from the artifacts, except maybe that humans knew a lot more then than we give them credit for.
Let's even say that delegations from all sorts of diverse cultures examined the artifact. They invite one person from here and we send ... Pons! ... Pretty much everyone agrees:
a) the artifact shows compelling evidence of alien contact
b) it shows their DNA "commingled" with ours
...
I'd pop a bottle of wine, cherish the moment, and if anything, worry about some other avenue to avoid the PTB.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Don Morace » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:02 pm

Hi Folks,Don here.Just a quote for Rocky,"they have to ruin your name before they can kill you"taken from the movie'The gladiator'.Don out....................... :D
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Moon » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:24 pm

The chances of finding ET out there are getting better and better all the time. About 20 years ago, there was no way they knew how many planets are really out there. They could only guess, and many thought only stars like our Sun could have planets. Many even thought they were quite rare and our Sun was almost unique.

That has all changed now as they have found a way to detect other planets orbiting stars. We now have Kepler discovering that planets are quite common and all types of stars have them.

The search is going to take some time, but the evidence being amassed is becoming more and more in the favor that we are not alone.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby yerock III stoneman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:54 pm

Hi Don. Most of my life I was heavily influenced by comments attributed to Cicero in "A Pillar of Iron" by Taylor Caldwell, bless her soul. Cicero said to keep yourself out of sight of the government and people of power. Theres a some great quotes in that book for us all.
Most of my life I followed/preached Cicero's/Caldwell's advise. That was then, this is now, the tides of time are at my feet. Yours too.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby deep thought » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:23 pm

Serene wrote:It absolutely blows my mind that there are people who more than readily believe that there is a benevolent (really? not accordingto the old testament) almighty god in the heavens and a burning hell below, but they cannot comprehend that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe alone.

How can anyone even for a nano second doubt that there is life beyond earth out there? I mean, how can you not believe that there is alien life out there and that they may very well have visited earth before?

Although I'd certainly love to, personally - I don't NEED to see "proof" of that. My simple rather uneducated mind tells me that the probability is beyond any reasonable doubt.


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Re: Skeptics

Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:40 am

Serene wrote:It absolutely blows my mind that there are people who more than readily believe that there is a benevolent (really? not accordingto the old testament) almighty god in the heavens and a burning hell below, but they cannot comprehend that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies in our universe alone.

How can anyone even for a nano second doubt that there is life beyond earth out there? I mean, how can you not believe that there is alien life out there and that they may very well have visited earth before?

Although I'd certainly love to, personally - I don't NEED to see "proof" of that. My simple rather uneducated mind tells me that the probability is beyond any reasonable doubt.
I'm quoting you again too! I know I already did earlier, but this sure sums up me exactly as well.

I don't believe every idea and theory out there, far far from it. But I'll believe it until my dying day that we aren't alone in the great vastness of space. So yeah I have to admit I am going pretty much entirely on faith alone. (I have seen one UFO that I am completely confident was Alien in origin)
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Buzi-Blu » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:04 am

I'm not so convinced, although I do think it is extremely probable. But until we find a second example of life arising from non-life, whether on earth or elsewhere, then we cannot conclude (intelligent) life is common throughout the universe. There is always the chance that life here is a massive inconsequential fluke. Common sense might tell us otherwise but common sense is best only applied on earth and on human scales - outside of those zones it can often mislead.

99% sure is not 100% sure, and that's the beauty of the scientific method because sometimes incredibly surprises do occur.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Erik Norberg » Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:41 am

As I understand from books, scientific magazines and documentaries, there are about 500 billion galaxies in the known universe
at the latest rough count, and each galaxy contains several hundreds of billions of stars.

And it also seems that most stars, that have been checked so far, have planets orbiting.

My opinion is that you would have to be a complete moron to completely rule the AAT out…

That´s not to say that AA:s have been here and are responsible for all ancient anomalies, but it is absolutely a possibility.
In mainstream media and archeology everything that is not as they have been taught in school, is categorized as new age nonsense.
I do not believe for a second that all these mainstreamers are complete skeptics.
They are just afraid of being the laughing stock of their workplaces and many are probably members of this forum…

Aliens, Gods, Ghosts, Mindreading, Telepathy etc etc is for some reason referred to as SUPERNATURAL, when in fact it is probably perfectly NATURAL…
They are unusual and hard to explain phenomena at this point, but not supernatural.
That’s what I think.

So, what’s going on then?

The way I see it regarding physical ancient anomalies there are three possibilities:

1.
A 100% human high tech civilization capable of monumental constructions beyond our own once existed
and was destroyed for whatever reason and the know-how was lost.

2.
An earlier civilization was influenced or perhaps partially created and controlled by ET:s, who later either left this planet or stayed, but reduced their own influence on human society.

3.
The mainstreamers are correct and sights like, to only name a few, the Great Pyramid, Baalbek and Puma Punku with stones weighing up to 1800 tons (Baalbek) and cut with extreme precision was moved and constructed by primitive people with only copper and stone tools and ropes and manpower…

I bet most of my money on nr 1 and some on nr 2, and view nr 3 as highly unlikely from what I have seen so far.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:13 pm

1 and 2 are my top explanations.

And I love this. That sums it up for me as well.

My opinion is that you would have to be a complete moron to completely rule the AAT out…
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Re: Skeptics

Postby gerhard1 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:46 am

Erik Norberg wrote:As I understand from books, scientific magazines and documentaries, there are about 500 billion galaxies in the known universe
at the latest rough count, and each galaxy contains several hundreds of billions of stars.

And it also seems that most stars, that have been checked so far, have planets orbiting.

My opinion is that you would have to be a complete moron to completely rule the AAT out…

That´s not to say that AA:s have been here and are responsible for all ancient anomalies, but it is absolutely a possibility.
In mainstream media and archeology everything that is not as they have been taught in school, is categorized as new age nonsense.
I do not believe for a second that all these mainstreamers are complete skeptics.
They are just afraid of being the laughing stock of their workplaces and many are probably members of this forum…

Aliens, Gods, Ghosts, Mindreading, Telepathy etc etc is for some reason referred to as SUPERNATURAL, when in fact it is probably perfectly NATURAL…
They are unusual and hard to explain phenomena at this point, but not supernatural.
That’s what I think.

So, what’s going on then?

The way I see it regarding physical ancient anomalies there are three possibilities:

1.
A 100% human high tech civilization capable of monumental constructions beyond our own once existed
and was destroyed for whatever reason and the know-how was lost.

2.
An earlier civilization was influenced or perhaps partially created and controlled by ET:s, who later either left this planet or stayed, but reduced their own influence on human society.

3.
The mainstreamers are correct and sights like, to only name a few, the Great Pyramid, Baalbek and Puma Punku with stones weighing up to 1800 tons (Baalbek) and cut with extreme precision was moved and constructed by primitive people with only copper and stone tools and ropes and manpower…

I bet most of my money on nr 1 and some on nr 2, and view nr 3 as highly unlikely from what I have seen so far.

This post is one of the fairer posts that I have seen here, and in large part, it sums up where I stand on it. I don't completely rule out the possibility of ET visitation in the remote past. But, to be frank, I don't believe it is likely.

Like Mr. Norberg, I feel that the most likely scenarios are his #1 and his #2. And almost all of my money would be on #1. Just as an academic exercise, I will have to say that his #3 is possible, but exceedingly unlikely.

I can be convinced. All it takes is evidence.

Again, Mr. Norberg, a good post on your part.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Ace Rimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:04 am

I am more and more leaning towards :

A 100% human high tech civilization capable of monumental constructions beyond our own once existed
and was destroyed for whatever reason and the know-how was lost.

I think our method of dating is out of whack and most of the ancient monumental structure, or parts of them, that are left are far older than main stream thinks they are.

This is not to say I don't think there are many life forms alien to us out there and I do think they have visited us many times and are still doing so.
So I can never, in my own heart, discount the possibility of some Alien Intervention along the way.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby gerhard1 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:37 am

MetaMorphosis wrote: I am more and more leaning towards :

A 100% human high tech civilization capable of monumental constructions beyond our own once existed
and was destroyed for whatever reason and the know-how was lost.

I think our method of dating is out of whack and most of the ancient monumental structure, or parts of them, that are left are far older than main stream thinks they are.
I agree with this for the most part; I aree that that it could have been human. However, a thread on another website gave me this idea--the intriguing possibility exists that there could have been more than one such civilization and they, or it could be farther in the remote past than most of us imagine.
MetaMorphosis wrote: This is not to say I don't think there are many life forms alien to us out there and I do think they have visited us many times and are still doing so.
So I can never, in my own heart, discount the possibility of some Alien Intervention along the way.

I agree; that possibility exists as well. I don't 100% exclude the idea, but I don't think it very likely

Should evidence turn up that turns this on its' head, I'll look at it, of course, and give it a fair evaluation.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Ace Rimmer » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:30 am

gerhard1 wrote:
MetaMorphosis wrote: I am more and more leaning towards :

A 100% human high tech civilization capable of monumental constructions beyond our own once existed
and was destroyed for whatever reason and the know-how was lost.

I think our method of dating is out of whack and most of the ancient monumental structure, or parts of them, that are left are far older than main stream thinks they are.
I agree with this for the most part; I aree that that it could have been human. However, a thread on another website gave me this idea--the intriguing possibility exists that there could have been more than one such civilization and they, or it could be farther in the remote past than most of us imagine.
That and we could have wiped ourselves out, or a natural disaster, more than once. And our history on this planet goes back farther than we can imagine.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Moon » Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:37 pm

The one reason I think it is both is most alignments of the monuments around the world are to major star systems. I have always wondered if they were a map showing where the visitors came from.

I also think humans built all of the monuments with ancient knowledge long since lost. My questions are:

1. Where did they find the lost knowledge to start rebuilding these structures?

2. If they found it, how did they know what to do with it and why did they build them?

3. If they didn't find the lost knowledge, someone gave it to them. The survivors would of been long dead, so gave them such information?

I have stated this before, but I believe a very early prehistoric civilization reached heights and had extraterrestrial contact. Some cataclysmic event destroyed it and the extraterrestrials waited to see if we were able to get ourselves out of the mess. After a few thousand years of us going nowhere, they decided to "jumpstart" our civilization again and gave us clues as to where they were from just in case this happened again.

It did as we lived through the Dark Ages where much of the knowledge of the Ancients was lost again.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby phoenix » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:54 pm

It is not very important for me who claims to know the truth about earth’s remote past. However, the theory that a 100% human advanced civilization existed on earth in the remote past and for some reason was destroyed seems to me to be based purely on speculation.

At least the AA-theory that are based on alien creation activity, earth colonization and alien aid to mankind, is backed up by thousands of volumes of ancient books, texts, text fragments , wall reliefs, stelas, stone reliefs, wall paintings, sculptures, artifacts and many, many other things.

One can of course easily claim that all these books are pure fiction or cannot in anyway be trusted, and thus ignore them. Homer’s works (like the Iliad) was for instance (and for a long time) regarded as such (They probably still are amongst the mainstream scientist), but when an amateur archeologist called Heinrich Schliemann took it upon himself to trust the stories he dug out the city of Troy exactly where Homer in his works Iliad described it to be.

Why would thousand of ancient books and texts all tell a lie?


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Re: Skeptics

Postby Buzi-Blu » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:08 am

The gods of the ancient myths could just as simply be human, perhaps even space-faring. A more remote civilisation that had some survivors could equally be responsible; in favour of this argument is the fact that these gods are extremely human-like in scale and anatomy, and in behaviour. Such previous civilisations could have been created by other types of human - for example was Neanderthal incapable of such things?

With regard to stone monuments: I do not see how invoking ETs explains anything. The question is why would such structures be built? For what purpose? I find it hard to believe ETs would build such things, after all, would we go to Mars and build using huge boulders or use modern materials instead? The only plausible explanation I can see is that such structures will stand for millennia. A high-tech earlier civilisation brings up the same questions - why? For a primitive culture they might do these "things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of [their] energies and skills, because that challenge is one that [they] are willing to accept" (JFK).

It is still all speculation though, but exciting speculation.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby gerhard1 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:28 am

phoenix wrote: It is not very important for me who claims to know the truth about earth’s remote past. However, the theory that a 100% human advanced civilization existed on earth in the remote past and for some reason was destroyed seems to me to be based purely on speculation.

At least the AA-theory that are based on alien creation activity, earth colonization and alien aid to mankind, is backed up by thousands of volumes of ancient books, texts, text fragments , wall reliefs, stelas, stone reliefs, wall paintings, sculptures, artifacts and many, many other things.
But it can be said with just as much validity that the AA theory is also based on speculation just as the technologically-advanced human hypothesis is. You say that it is backed by thousand of books, etc., but the point of the skeptics is that that is how the AA theorists are interpreting the data. The data can be just as reasonably interpreted to mean something else.

phoenix wrote:One can of course easily claim that all these books are pure fiction or cannot in anyway be trusted, and thus ignore them. Homer’s works (like the Iliad) was for instance (and for a long time) regarded as such (They probably still are amongst the mainstream scientist), but when an amateur archeologist called Heinrich Schliemann took it upon himself to trust the stories he dug out the city of Troy exactly where Homer in his works Iliad described it to be.

Why would thousand of ancient books and texts all tell a lie?

regards
Phoenix

I think that you are over-stating your case somewhat here. I have never said (and in fairness, I don't think that many others have either) that all, or indeed many, of the ancient books are lying. The vast majority of the ancient texts probably have a fair amount of truth to them. The same thing with many of the oral traditions handed down over time: they also very likely contain more than a few grains of truth as well.

But, having said that, I think that at least a few of the AA theorists have their minds made up that the earth was by golly visited by AA''s in the remote past, and they exclude all data that does not fit into their pre-conceived notion. They interporet any and all anomalous or questionable phenomena as 'proof' of AA vistitation.

Now I am not what is called a debunker. I think that I am a fair person. I am willing to listen to all sides of a controversy before I make up my mind. That said, it is far from established fact that the earth was visted by AA's or is currently. Is it possible? I have to concede that it is possible.

But it is just as valid to say that an advanced ancient civilzation is the answer to these questions as AA's. Both are speculation. Neither is established fact. And that is something that all sides in the debate should keep in mind.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Corcaigh » Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:26 am

coomba98 wrote:Who here views both sides of the story before making an opinion?


Realistically speaking, everyone should do that in all situations, as there are always two sides to every story!

I "fell out" with religion due to the lack of evidence that "god" is a kind being who cares for us. All right faith is believing without proof, but there are limits to what someone can be expected to blindly follow without question!

I find the idea that humans and humans only are responsible for every civilisation and technology on Earth.

I think we're somewhere in between our own capacity to create/invent/develop and some outside 'interference' helping us along.

quick example of one extreme to the other: There is a place in Scotland near where my brother lives, which is a UFO hotspot, X number of people have seen Y number of lights in the skies over the town (can't remember the exact figures!) one side say it's alien spacecraft, the other day it's a fella who owns a pub in the area shining a halogen torch into the sky to drum up business.

I definitely don't think it's someone with a torch, however bright the torch may be, as the lights that have been seen are shining down and not up, and they are multicoloured and move, and are seen over too large of an area for it to be one man and his torch. A large group of people with kites with lights on them maybe...

I'm not sure that it's alien spacecraft either, seems a bit odd that so many would converge upon one small town in the middle of nowhere. There is a theory that it's an atmospheric phenomenon caused by the rock underground interacting with the electric power station near the town. I dunno if that's possible, but y'know it's more plausible than the bloke from the pub with his torch!!
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Moon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:15 pm

I do think one should read both sides of the story or subject. It lets the reader decide for themselves if the evidence warrants more research.

What needs to be done on both sides is better handling of some of the incidents out there. I still read about the Aztec Crash as if it was real, when it was originally culled from an old book long since shown to be a hoax.

Skeptics also do the same thing by constantly ignoring the evidence given to them.

I try to go out of my way to find balanced researchers out there, but it is getting harder and harder. I recently read one UFO book where the author stated he would only report on the most reliable cases out there. He then spent some time on the hoax Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze pictures. I was very upset about it and will not get a book by that author again.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Erik Norberg » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:00 pm

phoenix wrote:It is not very important for me who claims to know the truth about earth’s remote past. However, the theory that a 100% human advanced civilization existed on earth in the remote past and for some reason was destroyed seems to me to be based purely on speculation.

At least the AA-theory that are based on alien creation activity, earth colonization and alien aid to mankind, is backed up by thousands of volumes of ancient books, texts, text fragments , wall reliefs, stelas, stone reliefs, wall paintings, sculptures, artifacts and many, many other things.

One can of course easily claim that all these books are pure fiction or cannot in anyway be trusted, and thus ignore them. Homer’s works (like the Iliad) was for instance (and for a long time) regarded as such (They probably still are amongst the mainstream scientist), but when an amateur archeologist called Heinrich Schliemann took it upon himself to trust the stories he dug out the city of Troy exactly where Homer in his works Iliad described it to be.

Why would thousand of ancient books and texts all tell a lie?


regards
Phoenix



I don´t think they all tell a lie, and perhaps the nr 2 (AAT) is the answer.

But all the "thousands of volumes of ancient books, texts, text fragments , wall reliefs, stelas, stone reliefs, wall paintings, sculptures, artifacts and many, many other things" could just as easily be connected to the "100% human theory". Not saying that it is so, but it could be.

One reason why I believe most in "nr1" is because of the "aeroplane artefacts".
Why would Ancient Aliens with antigravity propulsion etc need to use aerodynamic aircraft?

Something is missing here... Basic aerodynamics seems like a human invention.

Of course, they could have been taught this by AA:s who did not want to reveal antigravity at this point, but I doubt that.

Perhaps I´m not the first one to suggest this but
a far out suggestion mainly for fun from my side that I highly doubt myself, is that the aeroplane artefacts are made by primitives who saw actual jetfighters of our time.
I read somewhere that the first time jump was achived in the 1960:s. Perhaps in jetfighters.
Yes I know, it´s too much, but who knows...

Anyways, until an alien visits me and takes me for a ride to his home planet I go for nr 1.
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Re: Skeptics

Postby Ace Rimmer » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:45 am

Erik Norberg wrote:
One reason why I believe most in "nr1" is because of the "aeroplane artefacts".
Why would Ancient Aliens with antigravity propulsion etc need to use aerodynamic aircraft?

Something is missing here... Basic aerodynamics seems like a human invention.

Of course, they could have been taught this by AA:s who did not want to reveal antigravity at this point, but I doubt that.

Perhaps I´m not the first one to suggest this but
a far out suggestion mainly for fun from my side that I highly doubt myself, is that the aeroplane artefacts are made by primitives who saw actual jetfighters of our time.
I read somewhere that the first time jump was achived in the 1960:s. Perhaps in jetfighters.
Yes I know, it´s too much, but who knows...

Anyways, until an alien visits me and takes me for a ride to his home planet I go for nr 1.
By George, I like that idea. that is one thing my husband especially brings up and I agree, we just don't think ETs would be flying around in aeroplanes.
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