is this how the ancient master builders did it?

[truthseeker]

Ed Leedskalnin, did this man truly discover the secrets of the ancient master builders??

i'm going to include a link all about a site which Ed Leedskalnin reportedly built all by himself called 'The Secrets of Coral Castle'
http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa071999.htm



watch these 2 clips then lets talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcio5p7l ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb9ZBYzt ... re=related

[bezpretenz]

great find, i'm amazed i will encourage myself to visit this place one day. it's truly raises many questions in my mind, like, where do he got the basic knowledge? from secret authorities? in my opinion, man can't just so simply leave he's homecountry, because he's girl left him in church (he probably tried to reason her into emigration to Florida and she refused). there has to be some other explanation, and if he had knowledge of controlling gravity, he would most certanly be haunted by secret authorities, as it was said (latvians was under the fist of russia at that time). no matter where he had ventured, i believe, even in america he would have be taken for interrogation and asked to reveal he's secret's( maybe they did, hwo know's), and that's why he did it alone and in the dark. i especialy liked part where he moved all stone block's from one to another place, it really makes you wonder how easy it was for him to rebuild that "castle" in other place.

Truthseeker is the best! thanks for giving info on this

[jag@earth]

Hi
The pyramids were designed, engineered & built by god Tehuti of the Annunaki, to serve as beacons for their spase ships, coming from the planet Nibiru and landing in their space facilities in Siani until around 2020 BC.
Z. Sitchin uncovered the whole history in his books.

regards

[truthseeker]

hi jag and welcome to the forum...

i've not read any of Z. Sitchins books so i have no frame of reference...

i cant see that being the case since others have also discovered that we ALL have the ability to levitate anything from a pencil to a 2000 tonne block...

what proof does Sitchin provide for his claims?

[jag@earth]

Hi
EVD opened the door for us all to search for ET as a REALITY, as the TRUTH, ..... and Z.Sitchin managed to put the puzzle together by translating Summerian texts and explaning to us that, what we thought of as Mythology was not ! It was CELESTIAL information they(Summerians) were given by the Annunaki:"Those who from heaven came".
Sitchin's first book: The 12th Planet(45th edition !); written in 1976, is the introduction to his work.
What we are discovering now, especially in Science and Astronomy..was known long time ago, it was given to us by the Annunaki, the advanced race
who came from Planet Nibiro around 450,000 years ago(Nibiro, thier home planet, comes near Earth once every 3600 years, in an orbit between Mars and Jupiter) and created us in their image, by advanced genitic engineerig, through time they kept UPGRADING us...
Our ancestors called them the GODS.

jag

[truthseeker]

thanks for the summery

[jag@earth]

cheers

[nathanallan]

My gaming buddies have found out and are discussing the Coral Castle. I offer a link for observation purposes (don't expect anyone to sign up for that forum).

We're not the only ones interested. One user, the.golden.axe has an experiment in mind, and I am hoping he has something interesting that can be tried.
[url]
http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/14 ... al-castle/[/url]

[upperworld]

http://www.legendarytimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=820

Topic stealer i posted this a couple weeks ago! Haha, no harm, i am very fascinated by the coral castle. Unfortunately Ed led such a secretive life, we may never know if he truly unraveled the secrets of magnetic levitation, or if this was the way the ancients constructed megaliths of the past.

[nathanallan]

Doh! I didn't see it when you posted it, sorry!

The thread at atariage is really heating up. One guy is convinced of one theory and another, me included with him, believe we don't know what he knew. Very hot thread. Great subject, too!

[drwdrw123]

The numbers range - but the largest pyramid is made of some 2.4 million blocks with an average weight of about 2 and half to 3 ton each I believe. Even if we give the Egyptians the outside edge of 85 years to build the largest structure - they would have had to cut/quarry/move and place one block every 20 minutes non stop 24/7 for 85 years

Lets give them 255 years - that means 1 block an hour non stop 24/7 = cut - transported - placed and no mistakes. ONE block an hour and that would have been an incredible task in itself based on the tools we believe they had and the methods we believe they used.

This does not include the other two pyramids.

Who built the pyramids? Who knows - but it wasn't the Egyptians. How old are they? No way to date them - my guess = 10K B.C.E or more. What were they used for - Power and Communication is a good guess.

There is no doubt one or more extra-intelligent species were roaming this planet at various times in our past - and possibly much further in our past than we can even imagine. Especially based on the cultural and artefactual evidence all around us. But as for the Great Pyramid - until Egypt decides to relinquish their hold on antiquity and the false notion that they "themselves" were responsible for the above - and let us "DIG" up their national pride - it's anyone's hypothesis.

[Surreal Killer]

I believe what you said, drwdrw123, is 100% correct. Both the science community and the general public need to open their eyes and realize this. The pyramids shouldn't exist according to our history. Yet they do. That is a huge red flag. It speaks volumes about what we don't know about our past.

[Zagrefez]

I think they want to cover the truth... I guess they know the truth, but if they reveal truth, they can lose their jobs... Just for money they do what they have to.. I don't know why so, but maybe history,religions and nowadays beliefs consists to this public knowledge what is false...

[wildbill]

Did anyone else read this article that came out today and roll their eyes besides me?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100110/sc_nm/us_egypt_antiquities_tombs

Wild Bill

[amnesiac]

Now, finally Mr.Hawas told the world the real truth how the pyramids were built. They were NOT slaves......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34794254?GT1=43001

[mahalla2]

"He added that the workers were rotated every three months and the burial sites were for those who died during the construction."


Personally, it would take more information to convince me that the tombs belonged to average workers and not slaves (which also could have been lowest members of a cast system) because of the huge turnover (no pun intended). Also, it would logistically have made more sense to bury the dead workers nearby as not to disrupt the construction of the pyramid than to cart the bodies off farther away for burial.

[amnesiac]

well, could be. But still the question who these people were ( workers or slaves ) doesn`t give us the answer what method was used to actually built those structures. To me for sure no ropes and logs and ramps Although probably a lot of people were involved in the area and some had died. I agree with that.

[Bob137]

I read somewhere a long time ago, that he had traveled to Egypt, learned that the hieroglyphs were mostly deciphered wrong, and that he figured out what they actually were saying, and that on pillars he deciphered the information for levitation, and then applied it in Florida, and that the secret service confiscated all his equipment, and writings after he died, so that know one else would know how it was done. I am not sure if this story is true, but if I remember correctly, this was a statement from someone who knew him. Like I said this was something I read a long time ago, over 30 years ago, and I do not remember what book it was from. I have always wanted to go to Egypt and try deciphering the hieroglyphs myself, I also do not believe that they are all deciphered correctly, and that they may tell a much more detailed story of much that transpired in Egypt than what mainstream archeologist say. From some descriptions of deciphering I have read, they don't even seem close to what I see in the pictograms, which is what they actually are. I have seen some, that seem to me to tell a story of beings from another planet, and DNA manipulations, surgery, flying vehicles, submarines, space craft, levitation, etc. The mainstream Egyptologist say they are something entirely different, which to me makes no sense what so ever when you look at them, so either I am off my rocker, or they are. Since I do not believe I am, then I am to conclude, that they are!

[Path of Least Resistance]

Leedskalnin wrote a book as well on Magnetic Currents. There is also a book out on how to read his writings, whatever that means.


haven't read either though

if anyone figures out how he did it, they'll will suicided shortly thereafter

[Pons Asinorum]

The numbers range - but the largest pyramid is made of some 2.4 million blocks with an average weight of about 2 and half to 3 ton each I believe. Even if we give the Egyptians the outside edge of 85 years to build the largest structure - they would have had to cut/quarry/move and place one block every 20 minutes non stop 24/7 for 85 years

Some time ago on another blog, I did debate the assertion about the rate of block placement within a 20 year period of time. I have reproduced that work here (although the number of blocks was different on that blog, so I made some changes here).



(20 yr / 2,400,000 blk) X (365 day/yr) X (24 hr/day) X (60 min/hr) = 4.38 min / blk

So 4.4 minutes per block, for a 20 year period of time.

That is an impressive rate, but it is an average measure, not a literal procedure. In other words, a single team did not likely place an individual block every 4.4 minutes. More likely, several teams placed several blocks every day (or work shift) — 4.4 min per block is what the workers would need to have averaged.

Consider something like this:

4.4 min/blk translates to about:
330 blk/day (for twenty years, non-stop, etc)
400 blk/day (for twenty years, where each year consists of 300 days-of-work and 65 days-off)
500 blk/day (for twenty years, same as above but also accounting for mistakes and setbacks).


Given all that:

500 blk/day divided among (say) 25 teams –> 20 blk/day per team.

20 blk/day per team, where each work-day for a team is (say) a 10 hour shift –> 20 blk/10 hr per team.

20 blk/10 hr per team –> 2 blk/hr per team –> 1 blk every half-hour per team.

Then divide each team into two crews, and the work day for each worker is 5 hours.


So, workers now have 65 days-off per year and work a 5 hour-shift per day, over a period of two decades -- and that is accounting for mistakes. Not that it would be easy, but the numbers are doable in terms of rate of block placement.

Also, adjusting some of the parameters (like inc to three crews per day, or inc to 40 teams, or inc the shift to 6 hrs, or less mistakes from 500 to 450 blks, etc) gives even more favorable results.

[Bob137]

That still does not explain how such huge heavy stones were moved, dressed, and placed. Such an undertaking without equipment superior to ours, or some other mode of transportation and lifting, other than by human power is required for such an undertaking, no matter what egyptologists state. It is an engineering connendrum to be able to do such work, alng with the granite work inside the pyramids, so without such equipment or know how, no matter what the time frame is, it is virtually impossible given the Egyptian technology at their so called time period in history, for this to have been accomplished!

[Pons Asinorum]

That still does not explain how such huge heavy stones were moved, dressed, and placed.

Agreed Bob.

[Prymus]

Would sand/dust storms be part of these delays and man power needed for wars. Because the numbers need to mine ,move and install -let alone feed,take care of pack animals , kids. Even if the quarry was right next door,not sure they could mine these at a 10 min clip,hell a hour each is pushing it,maybe a day each with given tools.

I get the extra crews ,but sense these pyramids get smaller and smaller as they get higher and if you use the drawing they use to move blocks up these heights (ramps). Wouldn't you start running out of room for all these crews?

Not even including stuff i'm just plain forgetting. Like what if more than one of these are being made at a time on different sights ,or making of temples ,palaces ,and other constructions that fall into these era. Its not if they stopped every thing to do this,well maybe they did .

While i have not checked the math,i believe you.

[Bob137]

My problem with the building of the pyramids is one of the engineering feat that it takes just per stone. First off to cut and dress such a stone with ur modern equipment would takes many hours. Second to place one with our modern equipment also takes hours for lifting, then transporting, then positioning into place exactly one target, takes even more time. For this to have been accomplished in just 30 minutes is inconceivable with the techn0ology that the Egyptians supposedly had 5,000 years ago. I not only worked construction of large buildings at one time, but also had my own business for years, and for this feat to be accomplished with a crew of even 100,000, just utilizing ropes, pulleys, logs, etc.. is not only improbable, but impossible to imagine the cost, and the motivation needed unless they were all zombies and brainwashed to just do this work and nothing else their whole lives, because there would be not time off, to get this completed in anyone persons lifetime with limited technology. So either there was some other way it was done, orit just appeared ut of know where, and has been there since for no known reason, which from all I have studied, is just not so. There is a reason for the pyramids, they are mathematical phenomenon, coded for the mathematicians, and physics precisely along with astronomically precise location for to be calculated all together to form a formula of what it is all about. Some believe it is a timetable such as the time table of the Mayans, and comes to the same time period calculations of 2012. It may possibly be, or it maybe a star map calculating the distance from here to Orion, or Sirius, or possibly as others say it is a machine. Whatever it is, it has boggled man's mind for centuries, so either they were smarter than we are now, and we aren't smart enough to figure it out, or they put it there just to F_ _ ) with us, so we would waste our time trying to figure out something, that was a very costly joke, (which I doubt), or Hawass and other Egyptians are right, just another tomb for some pharoah's body to be stored in, (which I also doubt).

[Pons Asinorum]

Would sand/dust storms be part of these delays...

No, the 300 days is just for the workers, not the work. Rotational labor forces or some other scheduling event would preserve the days-off but keep the man-hours constant per calendar year. And of course the Egyptians would be able to plan the work calendar around the worst parts of their seasons.

...and man power needed for wars.

The Egyptians were an empire at this time. They had a professional (standing) army. If war came, most Egyptians would not know the taste of war. The labor force would stay engaged with the work project (similar to our own nation, most Americans will never know war, yet our country is fighting two wars and standing for a third).

Because the numbers need to mine ,move and install -let alone feed, take care of pack animals , kids. Even if the quarry was right next door,not sure they could mine these at a 10 min clip,hell a hour each is pushing it,maybe a day each with given tools.

Think of a Ford plant -- one person cannot build 10,000 cars in a day, but two thousand workers can. Similarly, one person could not quarry at "10 min a clip", but a larger number of workers could achieve the needed average.

--

Although I do not know how the construction was done, one way would have been to take an assembly-line approach. This involves taking material at a station, manipulating it, and then sending it to the next station where the process repeats itself. Sometimes the processes are parallel and sometimes serial, wherever it makes optimizational sense.

Somewhere in this process is a limiting factor, a bottle neck that only allows a smaller output than any other preceding station.

If such a process was used in the construction of the Great Pyramid and if it involved quarrying, carving, transporting and placement of several hundreds of blocks a day; it is placement that is the limiting factor in my view. That is what my math was trying to show, simply that it is possible.

I envision several thousands of blocks being quarried in a day (parallel process), maybe a thousand being carved (parallel process), and several hundred being transported (parallel process) to the placement crews (parallel or series as needed or practical).

I do not argue that they "did" but that they "could."

Not even including stuff i'm just plain forgetting. Like what if more than one of these are being made at a time on different sights ,or making of temples ,palaces ,and other constructions that fall into these era. Its not if they stopped every thing to do this,well maybe they did .

That is a good observation Prymus.

Something I believe: sometimes a civilization comes along and due to fortuitous circumstances; there is a moment in its history where it stands to make a great achievement on a grand scale -- something that will forever mark human history in terms of creation, skill and knowledge. Even then, such achievements may still not be built, but sometimes...

I think Ancient Egypt was one such civilization: resources, capitol, skilled-labor, knowledge, desire, political stability, construction-history and a stone carving tradition that was generations old -- all coalesced at one moment -- and they seized it.

In the end, there is no proof, but that is true for any assertion on how this pyramid was built. Maybe 4,500 years from today, they will say "no way had they flown to the moon without help from extraterrestrials." Convinced that the difficulties involved coupled with the technologies of the day, it is inconceivable. I can hear the arguments already: "...less than 7 decades after the Wright Brothers!!" or "...they were using the English system of measurements for god's sake!”

While i have not checked the math,i believe you.

Thank you Prymus! I do make mistakes all the time, so be careful with my math

[Prymus]

I've been in some form of construction for most my adult live,i get a lot this .

War are not something you can plan on like a time clock .Some where along here to allocation of men will be more than your pie. If i'm not wrong a standing army took up a size-able amount of every known civ,some times up to 80%( i maybe wrong) And to our knowledge Rome was the 1st standing army or full time .

While to a point you can use the ford plant analogy , those took years to perfect .If what i have read on this is right ,stuff on this scale hand never been attempted .

As on the # even if your only close ,its close enough

[Bob137]

The question remains on how were the stones carved so precisely, especially the granite on the interior, which tolerances as close and better than our own done by machine lathes. engineers today state the feat could not be accomplished with our technology today, so how did they do it with simple copper tools, that cannot cut granite, and if they did figure out away to do it, how did they do it so precise without a lathe or computer cnc machines, which is what engineers say it would take? To simplify such an achievement to manpower alone is not convincing, that is what the
Egyptologist have done, without actually explaining how it was accomplished in detail! The pharoahs just had a 100,000 workers pulling stones with rope, and put it there, yup, yup! I don;t think so. It takes a lot more coordination and technology than that to accomplish such an engineered precise construction. You cannot even build a steel building that way, let alone a multi stone pyramid such as the great pyramid, or even the smaller ones. If the pyramids were truly built that way, they wouldn't be standing today! I built a pyramid out of wood, and to accomplish this, it took a lot of time to make it precise, and a lot of calculations, and then to put it together, took a long time, so if these Egyptians did it in such a short time, they must have been 20 feet tall, and built like hercules, with the brain power of Einstein, and communicated telepathically across great distances. That is about as logical as 100,000 men pulling these blocks with rope up a slope and being able to build the pyramids to their precision. Sorry if I seem a bit peeved about your logic, but it just does not compute!

[Gemini]

And there are those minor details such as making the "air shafts" and lining them up with stars, the interior with heavier and harder rock, harmonically tuned, the Giza complex lines up with a constellaton, in the center of the largest land mass on earth, encode pi into the construction, etc..................

[Prymus]

Yes out side the logistics of it all then comes the Math end of it,grant it it took math you built it .

But this math is on a hole other level than maybe what we can do today,and not even remotely possible with out computers and other devices .

I almost think the logistics(moving the stone) of it all might be the easiest , maybe not in that time frame. But its does able .

[Pons Asinorum]

I've been in some form of construction for most my adult live,i get a lot this .

War are not something you can plan on like a time clock. Some where along here to allocation of men will be more than your pie. If i'm not wrong a standing army took up a size-able amount of every known civ,some times up to 80%( i maybe wrong) And to our knowledge Rome was the 1st standing army or full time .

I am not certain myself about the size-of-standing-army versus population ratio. Nor do I know exactly how sophisticated the empire was, but my impression is it had an artistic class, stone cutters, engineers, architects, etc, and such are typically not sent to the battlefield en mass, but I am speculating. Your larger point is quite good and in the end I guess more research would be needed than I am willing to put in.

While to a point you can use the ford plant analogy , those took years to perfect .If what i have read on this is right ,stuff on this scale hand never been attempted .

I agree with your point that it takes time to develop such techniques (in the US about what, 15 or 16 decades), and indeed the Ancient Egypt pyramid-making tradition is architecturally traced back by a few centuries or more -- even millennia if you count the first mastabas:

"The mastaba was a very simple tomb without any form of decoration. The mastaba was built of mud-brick and consisted of a single elevated platform. The history of Egyptian tombs therefore started with the mastaba which was used during the Pre-dynastic Period (5550 BC - 3050 BC) through to the Early Dynastic Period (3050 BC - 2686 BC)."
(from http://www.king-tut.org.uk/egyptian-tom ... -tombs.htm)

--

But this math is on a hole other level than maybe what we can do today,and not even remotely possible with out computers and other devices .

Respectfully, I disagree Prymus. The math is quite straight forward and some of the ratios incorporated into the Great Pyramid (like pi and phi) are inherit in the construction methodology, knowledge of such ratios is not even required. I will expand on this in greater detail when I get time to respond to Gemini.

I almost think the logistics(moving the stone) of it all might be the easiest , maybe not in that time frame.

I agree, but the overall logistics (organizing, designing, planning, marshaling resources) -- that stuff was perhpas even more impressive than the engineering... well maybe not quite, but it is a close call in my view.

In the end, how these things were done is speculative, but that they could be done solely by human beings is feasible (and IMO absolutely true).

[Bob137]

First off, have any of you ever worked in 100 to 120 degree weather continuously, I doubt it. To accomplish this, it takes a lot of water and food, and you have to take breaks regularly, due to the amount of heat in your body, and the moisture and nutrients escaping your body. For anyone on earth to work at such speed in that type of weather with the sun continually beating down upon you in those temperatures, would kill a normal human being being exposed for that long of a period of time utilizing the said equipment of the time period, this would exhaust if not kill over 100,000 workers in just a few years. You would have to continually replace workers on a steady basis, which over a period of a year, let alone 20 years, would amount to millions of people. now just to get millions of people to labor in that environment for those long periods of time, and knowing that death is imminent, would take billions of dollars, in their time frame, and trillions in ours. The current population of Egypt works only a few hours at a time outside in the heat, and have to consume large amounts of water and food, and they are mostly all very skinny due to working in that climate, therefore they work at half steam due to the lack of muscle to accomplish their tasks, so all this must be taken into consideration when computing on the labor force on building the pyramids. So in all actuality what has been configured on what labor force is needed, and the needs of that force, would need to be at least doubled for these factors alone. Then the time frame issue would also have to be at least doubled, and this is without figuring in on anyone dying or injured, during construction, so an algorithm to include these factors into figuring out the complex issues along with this type of building technique needs to be configured to be more accurate for just a time frame, this does not include how the building was actually accomplished to such degree that it was done!

[Prymus]

First off, have any of you ever worked in 100 to 120 degree weather continuously, I doubt it. To accomplish this, it takes a lot of water and food, and you have to take breaks regularly, due to the amount of heat in your body, and the moisture and nutrients escaping your body. For anyone on earth to work at such speed in that type of weather with the sun continually beating down upon you in those temperatures, would kill a normal human being being exposed for that long of a period of time utilizing the said equipment of the time period, this would exhaust if not kill over 100,000 workers in just a few years. You would have to continually replace workers on a steady basis, which over a period of a year, let alone 20 years, would amount to millions of people. now just to get millions of people to labor in that environment for those long periods of time, and knowing that death is imminent, would take billions of dollars, in their time frame, and trillions in ours. The current population of Egypt works only a few hours at a time outside in the heat, and have to consume large amounts of water and food, and they are mostly all very skinny due to working in that climate, therefore they work at half steam due to the lack of muscle to accomplish their tasks, so all this must be taken into consideration when computing on the labor force on building the pyramids. So in all actuality what has been configured on what labor force is needed, and the needs of that force, would need to be at least doubled for these factors alone. Then the time frame issue would also have to be at least doubled, and this is without figuring in on anyone dying or injured, during construction, so an algorithm to include these factors into figuring out the complex issues along with this type of building technique needs to be configured to be more accurate for just a time frame, this does not include how the building was actually accomplished to such degree that it was done!

Yes i lived in Phoenix for 7 years anything below 105 was not to bad ,but once 110's broke it was not uncommon to drink 4-5 gallons of water and pee once . It gets brutal and i'm 6'5" 250-70lbs

Pons - on the math i only meant ,to line these great monuments to stars and moons and what not. Not making a square or triangles and such math sorry.

With out our satellites and computers ,this becomes a near impossibility

[Bob137]

Roger That!

[Path of Least Resistance]

Boo, the youtube clips were taken down.

here are some others, the Secrets of Anti-gravity featuring Chris Dunn of the Giza Power Plant theory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr9U1cP68eU part 1

[Pons Asinorum]

Sorry if I seem a bit peeved about your logic, but it just does not compute!

Understandable Bob, as it was not my logic that you argued against, but your own.

Some of your assumptions:

a) A 100,000 workers would be needed (this is your unsupported assertion).

b) The 100,000 workers would need to increase to millions because of heat exhaustion and death.

c) The climate models of today accurately reflect the climate of 4,500 years ago near the Nile River.

d) That civilizations near desert regions do not have strategies for coping with such conditions (despite you naming one possible solution).

e) Ignoring empirical evidence that other large constructions in Ancient Egypt took place in even more remote desert locations (including pyramids and other complex funerary projects).

Egyptologist have done, without actually explaining how it was accomplished in detail!

Actually, there are several papers presenting different detailed explanations on how various aspects of construction occurred, which have been published in many different peer-reviewed professional journals. Here are some more recent examples (a tiny fraction of such reports):

* http://www.talkingpyramids.com/how-the- ... -matrix-7/
* http://www.michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabb ... yramid.pdf
* http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/20 ... crets.html
* http://www.talkingpyramids.com/pyramids ... landscape/

Here is a book on the subject:
Building in Egypt: Pharaonic Stone Masonry, by Dieter Arnold


--

Pons - on the math i only meant ,to line these great monuments to stars and moons and what not. Not making a square or triangles and such math sorry.

No worries Pruymus, the mistaken assumption was mine -- my apologies.

Some of the points raised by you are quite valid, as they invoke the possibility that the technological and economic capacity of Ancient Egypt was insufficient for a project like the Great Pyramid.

Respectfully I disagree, but do note that you did not make unsupported assertions, instead you raised quite valid possibilities that may lend themselves to a solution, if researched.

We are probably not going to agree with whatever arguments we wish to make, but I do respect and appreciate your intellectual integrity.