Göbekli Tepe

[upperworld]

Last weeks AA episode introduced me to Gobekli Tepe. If GT predates a lot of Sumerian culture, and given it's proximity to ancient Sumer, could GT have been a prior civiliazation? Much of the sumerian written history is lost as most of the tablets and scrolls have either been destroyed or are lost. However it could be possible they are nothing but inherited stories from an older civilization, perhaps GT, just as stories by the egyptians, greeks, and even ones in the bible stem from many of the sumerian tales.

If so this is very promising. When you are investigating you want details from the source, not second and third hand information. Most likely all the misinterpretations of ancient texts have come because everytime they get passed down from one generation to another, and translated from one language to another they lose accuracy and become more convoluted. The Sumerian tablets have been translated by many people, most notably ZS and the translations are always being criticized for being open to too much interpretation. As we continue to unearth GT we might stumble upon the source information, a more accurate description of the creation of earth, the creation of man, and perhaps a more detailed account of the technology used in ancient times that we have lost over the years.

[Ace Rimmer]

I have to wonder about sunken cities too, just the ones we know of, how many more might there be and how ancient they are and how many other even older civilizations there might have been.

[lunarwing]

We beileve the Babylon was a "decendent" city, or culture, of Sumer. One would think Sumer would have been a decendent city of Gobekli Tepe. Maybe we will find that Gobekli Tepe is a desendent city of something even earlier.

I'm puzzled with what I see in the rock glyphs at Gobekli Tepe, the majority of carvings are animals. Not like what you see coming out of Sumer that has carvings of what would seem to be gods interacting with the Sumarians and graphics like winged disc's and our solar system.

We won't be able to make an assumption until the other 95% of Gobekli Tepe is escavated.... and at the rate they are escavating.... we won't know for several more decades.

[Ace Rimmer]

Inregards to Gobekli Tepe why does everything have to be deemed a temple. Maybe it was a big gathering place for sport, think bullfighting, instead of bulls, they would bring in whatever animals were around and make sport of killing them.

[Moon]

Gobekli Tepe and many recent discoveries of cities that are underwater (off the coast of India) now show that the Sumerians were not the first to have civilization. The possibility of more finds underwater (the sea levels were 300 feet lower 12,000 years ago) also is getting ignored by the mainstreamers.

The thing is, they are the ones who have dated these new finds, but prefer no one notices the dates are much older than when civilization is supposed to begin.

[lunarwing]

The other problem Max is that anytime someone finds an underwater structure anywhere in the world... they start screaming they found Atlantis.

This is getting so old that the public no longer pays attention to it anymore.... and the discovery ends up in the dust bin.

These explorers and archealogists need to put the Atlantis story out of their mind and just do the science. Anyone that realizes that there probably was deluges throughout history, no matter what the cause, had raised sea levels and unindated settlements and cities of early man.

Though they may not be Atlantis.... their discovery is not unimportant.... for each and every underwater discovery gives us more information on just how far back human civilization goes.

[Ace Rimmer]

Gobekli Tepe and many recent discoveries of cities that are underwater (off the coast of India) now show that the Sumerians were not the first to have civilization. The possibility of more finds underwater (the sea levels were 300 feet lower 12,000 years ago) also is getting ignored by the mainstreamers.

The thing is, they are the ones who have dated these new finds, but prefer no one notices the dates are much older than when civilization is supposed to begin.

It still is starting to get out there, the information, it seems like finds like this should be all over the news. People are too busy watching mind numbing TV programs to be bothered with or take an interest in real life.

[Moon]

I do think they tend to ignore stuff if people scream "Atlantis", Lunarwing. However, the idea of an ancient seafaring peoples is getting closer to reality as each of these cities are discovered. I think they should ditch giving any the name Atlantis, even if one of them might be the actual city.

They can only ignore these findings for so long, then they will have to start really analyzing the theories as to how old civilization really is and if contact with extraterrestrials was a possibility.

[upperworld]

I agree with the Atlantis name. It is like the plague for mainstream archaeologists.

I'm not sure if the sea levels were generally lower thousands of years ago. They may have been in some places, but they were definitely higher in others. Southern Mexico, in particular the Yucatan area, was completely submerged until a few thousand years ago. However if these underwater civilizations are much, much older than the sea levels may have been consistent globally.

[Pons Asinorum]

If GT predates a lot of Sumerian culture, and given it's proximity to ancient Sumer, could GT have been a prior civiliazation?

Check out its location, Upperworld. This is in the immediate area where cattle, pigs, and wheat were first domesticated. More than that, the current day Kurdish people that live there still practice an incredibly old religion -- today it is called the "Cult of Angels" (the original name has been forgotten). Some say it relates well to elements of Buddhism, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism.

And, as you pointed out, it is located not far from where civilization was born...



(also, it was deliberately buried arond 8,000 BC -- odd that)

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/02/18/hist ... aking.html

[Ace Rimmer]

Göbekli Tepe, yeah I sure wonder why it was deliberately buried. Was it to hide something, or to destroy something.
And the Cult of the Angels, man this is just too fascinating and they respected the beliefs of others, as it should be.

[lunarwing]

The Cradle of "the really interesting part of mans developement" for sure...

What is left of Eden is a few miles to the southeast under the water of the gulf. (either there or in on the bottom of the Med Sea )

I still have not signed on to the Cradle of Man being in mid-afica.... but that is not saying a ancient race did not develope there. I think the Eastern Med on east to Iraq is the piece of the world is the most facinating.

[Pons Asinorum]

Göbekli Tepe, yeah I sure wonder why it was deliberately buried. Was it to hide something, or to destroy something.
And the Cult of the Angels, man this is just too fascinating and they respected the beliefs of others, as it should be.

Totally agree; everything about Göbekli Tepe is fascinating. No written language, but many stone engravings of all kinds of stuff -- especially vultures.


(Picture from: http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/artic ... erview.htm)

The burial of the site occurred at about the same time farming emerged (about 8,000 BC), not that those two events are necessarily connected, but it is interesting.

The Cult of Angles may or may not be related to Göbekli Tepe (its my speculation, and I apologize; I should have made that clear), but it does seem like a root for the religions of today in the same manner that this area (the Fertile Crescent) is also the root location of agriculture, writing, civilization...

(Here is a link about the Cult of Angels, it takes a while to load but is all text: http://www.kurdistanica.com/?q=node/101)

What a strange, fascinating and intriguing place.

The Cradle of "the really interesting part of mans developement" for sure...

Well phrased, Lunarwing! In light of this discovery, it seems our own past still has surprises in store for us. Who knows when the next discovery will occur -- or where.

[upperworld]

Göbekli Tepe, yeah I sure wonder why it was deliberately buried. Was it to hide something, or to destroy something.
And the Cult of the Angels, man this is just too fascinating and they respected the beliefs of others, as it should be.

What makes everyone so sure it was deliberately buried? I know that the manner in which it was buried left it so well preserved and being that there aren't many artifacts remaining it seems people up and left.

Remember we have only unearthed at most 5% of the ancient city. Who's to say that after digging up the remaining 95% we don't find skeletons, writings, artifacts and all kinds of evidence to point that the city suffered some cataclysmic fate and was buried in a sandstorm. I'm not saying that's what happened, but i just think we know too little of Gobekli Tepe's history to assume it was deliberately buried even if that's how it looks so far. We need to see more.

[Ace Rimmer]

This is what Klaus Schmidt had to say about it being buried. (a link to the entire article follows)

"Schmidt and I descend a ladder to the floor of the dig, where the ancient dust is banked against the T-stones. He continues: “The really strange thing is that in 8,000BC, during the shift to agriculture, Gobekli Tepe was buried. I mean deliberately – not in a mudslide. For some reason the hunters, or the ex-hunters, decided to entomb the entire site in soil. The earth we are removing from the stones was put here by man himself: all these hills are artificial."

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/ar ... ained.html

[upperworld]

This is what Klaus Schmidt had to say about it being buried. (a link to the entire article follows)

"Schmidt and I descend a ladder to the floor of the dig, where the ancient dust is banked against the T-stones. He continues: “The really strange thing is that in 8,000BC, during the shift to agriculture, Gobekli Tepe was buried. I mean deliberately – not in a mudslide. For some reason the hunters, or the ex-hunters, decided to entomb the entire site in soil. The earth we are removing from the stones was put here by man himself: all these hills are artificial."

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/ar ... ained.html

That is his perspective, and perhaps he's right. I just can't say for certain that i believe the city was intentionally buried by man. I haven't been to GT as Klaus has and seen it with my own eyes. But i wouldn't want to make such grand assumptions until more of the city is discovered. That is like us finding a giant naked human statue buried under the sand and having only unearthed the feet someone declares that it is of a male figure because the feet appear to be rather hairy.

[Ace Rimmer]

I have to see more pictures of it and the area, I am too busy at work right now. LOL
But it was called "pot belly hill" and it sounds to me like it is just this hill sitting there, like a huge mound of dirt, an out of place dirt hill.

Maybe it is all the dirt from the shaved off mountain tops in Peru, just kidding.

[Pons Asinorum]

That is his perspective, and perhaps he's right. I just can't say for certain that i believe the city was intentionally buried by man. I haven't been to GT as Klaus has and seen it with my own eyes. But i wouldn't want to make such grand assumptions until more of the city is discovered.

There is no evidence that Gobekli Tepe is a city -- no hearths, no cooking, no refuse dumps, no wateraccording to Dr Klaus Schmidt; just stones with engravings and bas relief and even a few sculptures. This leads him to conclude that GT was solely a religious site and not a village or city.


(Picture from: http://essayweb.net/history/ancient/gobekli.shtml)

Re: the burial -- how that was determined, I don't know but suspect it has to do with the layering and packing of soil, which if examined may have undeniable features of human involvement compared to a known sample of undisturbed dirt (total guess on my part, but they did use ground penetrating radar which is known to give different returns on disturbed layers and perhaps such returns are unique enough to determine if layering was caused by human or natural processes).

If GT was buried, then this effort was almost as astonishing as GT's construction because of the amount of dirt involved (see below); an effort that might have taken decades.

My calculation, based on:
* 4 uncovered stone formations arranged in circles, each having a 98 ft diameter.
* 18 additional covered formations.
* Volume = PI X (r^2) X height X total number of circles

Assumptions:
* Height of 20 ft.
* All circles have same diameter, and no structure exceeds 20 ft.

Volume = PI X (49 X 49) X 20 X 22 = 3.3 million cubic ft of dirt

That's an enormous amount and even if that is halved or quartered....hopefully they had invented the shovel at least

[Ace Rimmer]

Thanks so much Pons, this picture from the article says a lot to me. This is the first one I have seen of it, getting the whole picture of pot belly hill.

[upperworld]

Just because Klaus did not find any tools, any hearths or anything indicating that GT was a city, does not mean it wasn't. Again we have only unearthed 5% or so. Let's imagine Manhattan is buried by the sands of time and someone comes along 10k years later and digs up Central Park. This is greater than 5% of Manhattan, but it is not indicative of the rest of the city. Perhaps the areas excavated are for religious worship of some kind and the areas that housed people are still buried.

I'm actually agreeing with you all, if i had to bet on it i'd say it was not a city and was deliberately buried. I just don't think we can assume these things based on the limited amount of GT we've seen. We really have no clue how it was buried or what capacity it served in it's time.

[Ace Rimmer]

I agree with your logic Upperworld, 5% is nothing.

And why does everything have to be a Temple, is that all ancient man did, pray and worship. Life must have been boring as hell.

Perhaps it was viewed as an evil place. I hate to jump to conclusions, but it sure looks to me like it was buried. What a job that must have been!
I am so intrigued by this place as we all are. It just seem so strange to me they would bury whatever it is. Temple, Arena, or city. If people left a place and didn't want anybody else to use it, they would try to destroy it perhaps. Or they were so afraid somebody would see what they had been doing they wanted to hide the evidence. It sure is fun to speculate!

Oh, have they determined yet where all this dirt came from?!? it is local dirt? Is there a big hole some place nearby. Going by Pons figuring, that is a sh!t load of dirt to haul in.

[Pons Asinorum]

Again we have only unearthed 5% or so...

...I just don't think we can assume these things based on the limited amount of GT we've seen. We really have no clue how it was buried or what capacity it served in it's time.

Good point Upperworld...

And why does everything have to be a Temple, is that all ancient man did, pray and worship. Life must have been boring as hell.

...and good point Metaluna.

It is always wise to challenge assumptions and assertions, particularly when a new discovery occurs and not all the facts are known; especially, when there is no written record (presumably ).

--

Hey, you want to see something really weird, check out next door to GT (just under a 100 km) -- a village called Çayönü dated to about 7,000 BC:

"Çayönü presented evidence of the first farmyard pigs, but it also revealed a hoard of human skulls, one found under an altar-like slab and stained with human blood. "

...

"Other archaeological evidence suggests that some people were killed in huge death pits, while children were buried alive in jars or roasted in large bronze bowls."

(I'm working on getting the original source material for Çayönü, but if true, WTH was going on back then?)

[Ace Rimmer]

Yeeesh I have been doing some looking around on google trying to find out more about Çayönü. Maybe people were being eaten a lot back then.

"Like chiefdoms everywhere, early Neolithic villages seem preoccupied with the threat of attack by marauders from afar. Jericho was surrounded by moats and walls (long before Biblical times) and had a circular watch tower on top of one of the walls. Other early Neolithic settlements such as Tell-es-Sawwan and Maghzaliyah in Iraq were also surrounded by walls. I should note that at least one archaeologist claims that the first walls built at Jericho were for protection against mudslides rather than against armed attacks. But the tower with its narrow lookout slits clearly was designed to serve defensive functions. Nor can one doubt that the walls around Tell-es-Sawwan and Maghzaliyah were the equivalent of the wooden palisades characteristic of chiefdoms in lands where trees were abundant. These were no peaceful, harmonious, and harmless farmers concerned only with cultivating their fields and tending their flocks. At Cayonu in southern Turkey, not far from Catal Huyuk, James Mellaart excavated a large stone slab that had once been covered with human blood. Nearby he found several hundred human skulls without the rest of their skeletons. And why else, if not for protection against marauding strangers, would the people of Catal Huyuk have built their houses without openings at ground level."

Here is that one link you had Pons, this is a must read article for everybody, it has John Anthony West and Dr. Schoch too.
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... ry=Science

This was a pretty good site for a quick overview of many ancient cities.
http://firstlegend.info/theoldones.html

[Pons Asinorum]

Yeeesh I have been doing some looking around on google trying to find out more about Çayönü. Maybe people were being eaten a lot back then.

It appears the Holy Land has been in conflict since before civilization (maybe before writing).

Here is that one link you had Pons, this is a must read article for everybody, it has John Anthony West and Dr. Schoch too.
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1 ... ry=Science

Agreed, the interview section was fascinating. In particular, Mr. West's implied statement about science:

"But after a week, we became absolutely 100% convinced that Schmidt knew exactly what he was talking about, and the fact that his fellow academics were not challenging him was maybe even more convincing than the evidence itself because this upsets their whole paradigm and this upsets the applecart!

"You bet that even if they (academics) had a chink in Schmidt’s armor, they would be pushing battering rams through it trying to explode the theory."

This sums up science quite nicely: "...they would be pushing battering rams through it trying to explode the theory."

That is exactly true.

And so far, Dr. Klaus Schmidt has supported his conclusions by carefully and conservatively matching them with empirical evidence, and made clear when he is speculating or assuming facts.

Regarding Schmidt's fellow scientists and colleagues: West is correct, as such individuals would be professionally and ethically obligated to find any falsity within Schmidt's published conclusions (another reason peer review is so important -- transparency).

There is no mercy in science as acceptance equals scrutiny, and if one flaw is discovered, no matter how small, it will be exposed (eventually).

--

I could not find Dr. Schoch's opinion in this article even though he was in several photographs and was referenced by West repeatedly. This was unfortunate because I was quite intersed in hearing it (I have always held Schoch in high regard, especially when he disagreed with West about the date of the Sphinx and instead based his conclusion on the evidence of water erosion.)

I do look forward to hearing Schoch's commentary about GT, as the 2010 pictures imply the most recent information about GT that I could find, from a scientist.

This was a pretty good site for a quick overview of many ancient cities.
http://firstlegend.info/theoldones.html

Pretty good (?)... no... *It's.Pure.Gold!*
Thank you Metaluna, you rock as always.

[Ace Rimmer]

It appears the Holy Land has been in conflict since before civilization (maybe before writing).

Yeah what's the deal, haven't we ever been able to get along ?!

Thank you Pons you rock too! If we can't be out digging in the dirt we can atleast find things poking around on the internet.

That is the beauty of these old old sites, they are impossible to sweep under the rug or hide away in a box someplace.

I was really amazed and quite curious about that bead with the hole drilled through it.

"What Drilled Holes in Hard Stone Beads?

There are other serious mysteries. There is a little black bead and it’s a very hard stone – kind of a basalt-like or a very hard shale or something – a really hard little stone that is maybe an inch square and maybe a quarter of an inch thick. And it has a hole – a perfect hole – drilled lengthwise through the quarter-inch thickness. Now, how the hell without any metal you drill the bead of a necklace – a perfect hole through a piece of hard stone without any metal whatsoever as far as we know …

TWELVE THOUSAND YEARS AGO."

And whenever I see this picture of GT I keep "seeing", thinking there should se something on top of the pillars, like a platform. And it looks like it was built to keep people or animals in. It reminds me so much of a more primitive version of the Colosseum in Rome.
"The games played in the Colosseum are believed to have taken the lives of about 500,000 people and over a million wild animals. "

[Pons Asinorum]

I was really amazed and quite curious about that bead with the hole drilled through it.

"What Drilled Holes in Hard Stone Beads?

Unbelievably curious, that. If that bead were part of a necklace or something, then that means there are probably many more such beads.

Yeah, that bead is incredible. The whole site is; some of those lifted stones were were as much as 50 tons!

I've no idea how they made the hole in such a small, hard-stone bead (especially with no metal), nor do I know how they could manipulate such heavy blocks of stone, some with intricate sculpturing (again, without metal).

I think our ancestors were quite clever, much more than they are typically credited; that sophisticated human knowledge is much more extensive and ancient (indeed, prehistoric) than five or six thousand years. GT has set that clock back by thousands of years -- and that clock may still go back even further.

What are the odds that GT is alone; that there are no precursor sites? -- I would not take that bet.

Our ancestors were clever (like us; we did put a man on the moon afterall), but it cuts both ways -- they were also clever in warfare (also like us; we did create the atom bomb).

This is off-tangent, but I am sometimes curious what part of our nature will when out: the creative side or the destructive side. When I see something like GT, I think, "wow, how inspiring," but then I see Çayönü and think, "oh, how revolting."

And whenever I see this picture of GT I keep "seeing", thinking there should se something on top of the pillars, like a platform. And it looks like it was built to keep people or animals in. It reminds me so much of a more primitive version of the Colosseum in Rome.
"The games played in the Colosseum are believed to have taken the lives of about 500,000 people and over a million wild animals. "

Undeniably, it does look as though a platform is designed to sit atop the pillars. The tops look flat and at appropriate heights -- you may be onto to something Metaluna.

--

After thought: Metaluna, I did have a source that showed holes cut horizontally into some of the pillars. There was some speculation that if a wooded dowel was inserted between pillars, the amount of weight that could be supported was, well, (I forgot the figure but) enormous IIRC.

I'll see if I can find it.

[Ace Rimmer]

After thought: Metaluna, I did have a source that showed holes cut horizontally into some of the pillars. There was some speculation that if a wooded dowel was inserted between pillars, the amount of weight that could be supported was, well, (I forgot the figure but) enormous IIRC.

I'll see if I can find it.

Oh I like hearing that, because I have a pet theory that structures like this and Stonehenge and the step pyramids were landing platforms for UFOs.

Oh I see we lost the bead picture, it is in the article for people to see. Pretty unbelievable craftmanship!
I think the ancient people were much more clever and resourceful that we can imagine. I can't believe all the ancient cities being uncovered. It's a pretty exciting time to be alive.

This is off-tangent, but I am sometimes curious what part of our nature will when out: the creative side or the destructive side. When I see something like GT, I think, "wow, how inspiring," but then I see Çayönü and think, "oh, how revolting."

I'd say the destructive side is ahead of the game, look what a mess we are making out of this planet.
And we certainly don't have a problem killing each other off in any number of ways or blowing each other up.
I hope we don't go back to eating people. Ewwww, or maybe the Aliens were eating us.

[Gliese581]

Metaluna,

You have me thinking now that the "landing pads for UFO's" may have been ancient day "cattle corrals" where the flock was led into so that it could be picked up by the transport ship and taken to its intended destination.

The other info you posted about "finding hundreds of human skulls without the remaining skeleton" almost sounds like a cultivation or harvesting location....ancient times butcher shop???

Scary thought!

[Ace Rimmer]

Metaluna,

You have me thinking now that the "landing pads for UFO's" may have been ancient day "cattle corrals" where the flock was led into so that it could be picked up by the transport ship and taken to its intended destination.

The other info you posted about "finding hundreds of human skulls without the remaining skeleton" almost sounds like a cultivation or harvesting location....ancient times butcher shop???

Scary thought!

The same damn thought popped into my head too and creepier still, put that together with what Inquiring Mind said in another thread, this is right where these ancient cities are!

The middle east appears to have been a sort of ground zero in terms of ancient ET visitation and interjection. Many of the worlds major religions have surfaced from this general region. The constant conflict over ownership of this general vicinity is still very hotly contested, probably for reasons largely unknown to the general public. It's highly probable though that the middle and near east served as a central command center for the Anunnaki/Elohim (with an off Earth faction and an on Earth faction RE:Nephilim/Watchers) who spread from this locale to conquer the rest of the planet, as the same recurring themes of 'wars of the gods', the 'fall of man', global catastrophes and floods, genetic modification, serpent gods who demanded human sacrifice and wanton bloodlust, and 'gods' who bestowed civilization and science on mankind are recorded in ancient times in every corner of the globe, with the worldwide populace worshipping the same Anunnaki ET's who posed as 'gods', of course under different names.

Also don't forget this other part about Çayönü.

"Other archaeological evidence suggests that some people were killed in huge death pits, while children were buried alive in jars or roasted in large bronze bowls."

Man what indeed was going on. The thoughts of humans eating all those other humans is extremely, EXTREMELY disturbing to me, and being Food for the Gods isn't much better!

[Pons Asinorum]

I could not find the article I referred to in my above comment, but here is a picture showing the type of hole that was discussed:



Here is a link that briefly mentions some indications of evidence of a roof (you will need to do a search using the keyword of "roof" -- should bring you right to it, about 2/3's of the way down, in a caption of all italics with the heading of "Note"):
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/turkeygobekli.htm

I'll keep an eye for the intended article (figures, when you don't need it, boom, you can find it, no problem...).

I'd say the destructive side is ahead of the game, look what a mess we are making out of this planet.

And we certainly don't have a problem killing each other off in any number of ways or blowing each other up.

True what you say, but not so sure about the destructive-side being ahead.

Yes things look awful and it is the nature of evil to make the headlines, but even in the darkness, if one looks carefully...

There are (maybe) millions of acts of kindness every minute of everyday; I daresay you may be responsible for a few yourself . Not sure how it all adds up; for certain things look bad, even hopeless at times. Nevertheless, someone is showing mercy to someone else today, someone is helping another person today... . No matter how small, as long as the human heart is able to produce such acts, then we (the good that is in humanity) are still here, intact and with hope.

Of course, there are no gurantees...

[mahalla2]

[quote="Metaluna]TWELVE THOUSAND YEARS AGO."

And whenever I see this picture of GT I keep "seeing", thinking there should se something on top of the pillars, like a platform. And it looks like it was built to keep people or animals in. It reminds me so much of a more primitive version of the Colosseum in Rome.
"The games played in the Colosseum are believed to have taken the lives of about 500,000 people and over a million wild animals. "

[/quote]

yes, and I believe it is one of the reasons why this ancient place was buried because as societies re-invent themselves they are intimidated/embarrased by where they came from and want to get rid of the evidence - It has happened over and over and over again throughout history. There are even sites in North America that have not been investigated yet because no one knows there is a buried structure under all that sand and dirt.

[upperworld]

yes, and I believe it is one of the reasons why this ancient place was buried because as societies re-invent themselves they are intimidated/embarrased by where they came from and want to get rid of the evidence - It has happened over and over and over again throughout history. There are even sites in North America that have not been investigated yet because no one knows there is a buried structure under all that sand and dirt.

Good point mahalla. Maybe we are way overestimating the importance of GT in the grand scheme of history. Perhaps it was just a run of the mill site. Maybe a small art museum depicting animals of their time, or flea market that would be inhabited on the weekend mornings to trade crops. Either way, something better was built and they packed up shop and moved on.

Not unlike an old strip mall today, the new mega mall is built with their fancy new stores and food court. The old strip mall dies, the stores close, the windows get boarded up, the lot gets fenced off and it just sits and rots waiting for someone to buy the property and rebuild.

[Ace Rimmer]

Thanks Pons, it is really cool when you think something and then can find somebody else says it might be too. And thanks for that picture I do remember seeing that before, but never made the connection.

Note: The T-shaped monoliths appear to be covered with cup-marks on their top-sides. One wonders as to their purpose, and whether the stones may have once supported a 'roof' in which case they would have been invisible.

Yes things look awful and it is the nature of evil to make the headlines, but even in the darkness, if one looks carefully...

There are (maybe) millions of acts of kindness every minute of everyday; I daresay you may be responsible for a few yourself . Not sure how it all adds up; for certain things look bad, even hopeless at times. Nevertheless, someone is showing mercy to someone else today, someone is helping another person today... . No matter how small, as long as the human heart is able to produce such acts, then we (the good that is in humanity) are still here, intact and with hope.

Of course, there are no gurantees...

That is very true and I know that, I get very cynical and disheartened about the state of the world. I have sworn off the news again, because all that gets reported is the bad stuff. All the people I know are good people, I have no idea who all these evil folks in the world are!

yes, and I believe it is one of the reasons why this ancient place was buried because as societies re-invent themselves they are intimidated/embarrased by where they came from and want to get rid of the evidence - It has happened over and over and over again throughout history. There are even sites in North America that have not been investigated yet because no one knows there is a buried structure under all that sand and dirt

It is something along those lines for sure, I think so too. It was no small feat to bury GT, they sure did not want to be using it again or want anybody to use it or even see it. If something evil was finally overthrown or left the area they would want no reminders or have a place for somebody to return to and set up shop again.
I just can't shake the feeling it was a very bad place.

[Art Perez]

Build some 12-13,000 years ago, Gobekli Tepe it's not only the oldest worship temple found so far, but also seems to fit perfectly the Biblical description of the Eden. Aprox. 400 miles from Gobekli Tepe is modern Iraq, where the Sumerian civilization once lived and according to their texts were created by their Gods the Anunnaki "In their image and after their likeness"

The first flood story does not come from the Bible, but from the Sumerian texts, also the quote "in their image and after their likeness" it's mentioned first in the Sumerian texts thousands of years before the Bible was written. Could the Bible be a continuation of the Sumerian texts and if it is, what or where is the connection? what do you think?

Gobekli tepe, Eden, Gods/Anunnaki, Sumerians, creation, Bible. Does anyone see a connection here or is it just me?

[lunarwing]

Göbekli Tepe is located in Turkey... Eden's location as defined in the Bible is very descriptive with the mention of four rivers. Two of these rivers are still on the map today. The other two are fossil rivers and can be seen with GeoSats.

This puts Eden just under the head waters of the Persian Gulf.... not in Turkey.

Art... please do not fall into the trap that everytime something is found somewhere.... it must automatically be this or that. Scientists make this mistake all the time when they find an ancient settlement beneath the water just off shore of someplace and start yelling they have found Atlantis.

You have to use the information you have and what facts you know to assign the truth to what is found.