What do the Mayan know?

[kareng]

I'm tired of the theory that something bad will happen on the Winter Solstice in 2012. Just because the Mayan calendar supposedly ends at this time does not mean anything bad will happen on Earth. The Mayans were savage people. The Mayan character who made the calendar probably spent the day eating rotten fruit and had a hallucination about it or something. I am disappointed that the Ancient Aliens is promoting this myth to the public. Shame on you.

[DTM454]

The Mayans were savage people. you.

Were they any more "savage" than the Spanish who anhiliated thousands of years of Central American culture in 50 years? And the ones the Spanish didn't slaughter, got smallpox from them that wiped out over 70% of the entire native population.

That savage were they?

[lunarwing]

There's a slight problem.... it just wasn't the Mayan's.... though they get the majority of the media exposure.... or credit.

There were several other cultures from all over the world that claim the same thing or something very close to it.

How many can we list?

[DTM454]

There's a slight problem.... it just wasn't the Mayan's.... though they get the majority of the media exposure.... or credit.

There were several other cultures from all over the world that claim the same thing or something very close to it.

How many can we list?

I can think of only 3. You may know of more, but I know only 3.

I seem to be having difficulty recalling one of them. But the 2 I know for sure are as follow.


The Mayan Calender.

The Chinese have something called "I-Ching" that supposedly ends the exact same date, Dec. 21st 2012.

I can't seem to pull the other one up in my memory. I know it's there, but I'm drawing a blank. Hopefully I'll think of it later.

[kareng]

DTM,
The Spanish probably were more savage than the Mayan. I didn't mean to put down a civilization that you obviously admire.

Lunarwing,
Which other cultures expect something important to happen in Dec. 2012? I'd really like to know. Thanks.

[lunarwing]

Those that you said DTM...

I'll add the Hopi Indians to those.... and I think the Egyptians had something to say about it as well. What about those African Doguns? i know there's more... but I am having a "senior moment".

There's a good bunch of researchers in our forum now.... I'm sure they can add a few more.

[kareng]

Thanks, Lunar Wing. I have a lot of senior moments these days myself. I will do more research into the 2012 thing.

[cesarnc]

I'm tired of the theory that something bad will happen on the Winter Solstice in 2012. Just because the Mayan calendar supposedly ends at this time does not mean anything bad will happen on Earth. The Mayans were savage people. The Mayan character who made the calendar probably spent the day eating rotten fruit and had a hallucination about it or something. I am disappointed that the Ancient Aliens is promoting this myth to the public. Shame on you.

My thought is that many have made reference to the dreadful 12/12 because of the Earth/Sun/Galaxy alignment.

I would be surprised if only one knew that and was right about the doom.

Any culture with astronomy knowledge would have asked itself and then tried to answer if and when the three would get aligned. Well, they all must have found 12/21/2012.

And all of them started asking this question after the last alignment, so it would be easy to call this alignment some sort of master cycle. Doomsday was the next conclusion.

[Nikola]

There's a slight problem.... it just wasn't the Mayan's.... though they get the majority of the media exposure.... or credit.

There were several other cultures from all over the world that claim the same thing or something very close to it.

How many can we list?

I can add the indian Yugas.

[cesarnc]

Also, a Earth/Sun/Galaxy alignment would be a nice setup for a calendar. "When did time begin?"

You don't have to know that. You just pick a very long cycle, find who many days to it and then build your calendar backwards

That's how I'd do it back in those days between the baby barbecue and the dance session.

[Ace Rimmer]

I wouldn't call any ancient culture savage, I can't stigmatize a culture based on modern social values and ethics. ( which aren't so hot anyway)

kareng the best thing is to do your own research and then make up your mind about all the gloom and doom surrounding that date and the Mayans.

You might find some surprises, some feel it is going to be an awakening.

I think it is just going to be another day like any other.
I have a whole other list of things to worry about happening in the world.

[lunarwing]

The bloodly history of the South American indians are troublesome.... I'll have to admit that. What created those bloodly traditions and belief? That is a great topic for another thread. And if someone doesn't start it... I will... because it has been something I have wanted to delve into for a long time.

Anyway... how many cultures do we have so far gang?

Mayan (did the Inca and Astec or other South American tribes also know this information?)

Chinese (I ching) (anything from the Japanese?)

Hopi (how many more North American tribes?)

Yugas

Egyptians

Doguns? (which African tribes, if any?)

Any other early cultures from early Europe, Persia, Indian and Thailand, or even Polynesians?

[Inquisitive]

Wasnt it said at the end of there calendar something about "the end of the word of god and there will be a new begining or a coming together"? Its been awhile since I read anything on this subject so I may not be remembering it right.
But also there is a picture of several beings or gods dumping water out too.

[skyeye]

I think one of the main reasons some people take the Mayan calendar so seriously is its accuracy. It doesn't make sense that a primitive culture was working with a timeline of such large magnitude(400,000,000years). Another amazing fact is that the pyramids they built were built according to the calendar. Also, how could they have known about planets like Neptune and Uranus?

[Inquisitive]

I am still amazed at the fact they knew that we would be lined up with center of the milky way galaxy and the end of the 26,000 year tilt cycle of the earth on that same day.

[Moon]

The calendar used was what could be called a continuous one as it would just restart all over again. No end of the world or other prophecies, just a big festival to celebrate the restart of the calendar.

Many of the other prophecies dealing with 2012 are actually quite recent. I will go and look for much older books in my library (dated in the 1970s and before) to see if it is mentioned there. I think many have jumped on this bandwagon as it does sell a lot of books out there. Just type in books 2012 and you can see.

As far as it being on Ancient Aliens, it should be as it shows the ancient American peoples knew a lot about astronomy including precession.

The cultures did not expand on the knowledge they had, suggesting the learned it all by rote.

Who taught them this knowledge?

[lunarwing]

I've always liked that Sumarian tablet that has a really good representation of our complete solar system in the background. What would that be.... six or seven thousand years ago?

Then somehow.... a mere 400 years ago we were confident that the earth was the center of the universe.... and it was flat to boot!

The Mayan calender is designed to never run out.... it just goes around until it restarts all over again.... like a loop.

The Mayans have the best evidence, in their precise calender, of why they thought the world comes and goes through "ages". Most other cultures that believe that a time was coming that would be a time of change and difficulty just have "a story"... and nothing like the Mayan calender to back their story up. It's like they were just "told" it would happen... where the Mayans were "taught" why and how it would happen... with learning about the planetary cycles.

[Pons Asinorum]

I am still amazed at the fact they knew that we would be lined up with center of the milky way galaxy and the end of the 26,000 year tilt cycle of the earth on that same day.

It appears our sun is lined up with the center-line of the river of stars we today call the Milky Way. That happens every winter solstice from our perspective on Earth. But in actuality that is not the case.

Our solar system orbits the Milky Way every 240 million years or so. During this orbit, it also oscillates above and below the galactic equator -- one top-to-bottom trip takes about 66 million years (over a distance of 1000 light-years).

We last passed the galactic equator some 2 million years ago and will reach the "top" of our journey in about 14 million years or so, then begin the plunge back toward the galactic equator, several million years later.

The astronomer Frank Bash estimates that in 14 million years the sun will reach its maximum height above the Galactic disk. From that 250 light-year position, it will be pulled back towards the plane of the Galaxy. Passing through, it will travel to a point 250 light-years below the disk, then oscillate upwards again to reach its present position 66 million years from now. We crossed the plane 2 million years ago.

The Mayans were brilliant and detail orientated when they observed that during the winter solstice, in addition to the "alignment", the constellations move slightly every year. They measured those movements, discovered that they were in an arc and calculated the resultant circle and speed of those movements. From there, they derived an accurate precession calender.

The most perfect "alignment" in recent times, is said to have occurred in 1998:

There’s another type of galactic alignment. This is where the Earth, Sun and the center of the galaxy are in perfect alignment from our perspective. This actually happens every year during the winter solstice, on December 21st. Because of a wobble in the Earth’s orbit, the positions of the constellations slowly shift from year to year. The most perfect galactic alignment between the Earth, Sun and the center of the Milky Way happened back in 1998, but now we’re slowly shifting away from that alignment. In the coming decades, the perfect alignment will shift to another day.

[lunarwing]

The most perfect "alignment" in recent times, is said to have occurred in 1998

I remember that one.... there was already the threat of Y2K looming over us a couple of years ahead.... kinda like it feels here lately with the 2012 thing. The effect of the alignment was a hot topic. Would the alignment rip planets apart... things like that. All the talk died off after it came and went.

The Y2K event stirred up a bit more in the perceived panic..... and from other corners of the collective world community as well. I know the techies that depended on their electronic goodies got really concerned, when that last alignment in '98 didn't concern them at all. But Y2K came and went... and everyone went back into a daze.

This one "feels" different.

I think we are going to see what I call "the domino effect meets the chaos theory". This 2012 event has whole series of seperate factors that all converge. I think there will be events in all catagories across the spectrum of disasters. A major natural event like Yellowstone blowing it's plug combined with a world political picture looking aweful grim.... considering a 20 year old playboy was just made a general and is soon to be the great leader of his nuclear nation.

A possible run in with a massive solar flare because we have the highest level of flare activity in recent years.... or the world is in the financial $#!+er and a collapse of the market is quite likely. Happenings in the natural world going spastic with weird weather and weird animal deaths. heck throw a gulf full of oil into the mix..... topped off with some disspersent that is questionable.

Add to that the earth changing its position is screwing up everything from runways to zodiac. Top that off with some galatic alignment?

Too many things happening all at once... this one I think will be serious. I don't know if the Mayan calender is perfectly in sinc with ours... if it's off by a year or so, or by days. So I am not sure that it will be the exact day of Dec 21, 2012 or not... but I feel that it will be in the next year or more.

So if 12/21/12 goes by and nothing happened that day.... do yourselves a favor and don't go back to sleep. Use the momentum that you have to be ready for anything.

[angeloneastralseed]

Add the Koran and Bible to that list (although they don't mention the year, so maybe not)
But they do describe a dark and scary end. So whether we like it or not, it is most likely a truth we may need to face.

[lunarwing]

I was tempted to add the Bible, and I guess we can include the Koran as well. I thought about the lack of a date thing...

They don't give the specific date like Angel said..... but they do mention a series of disasters.... and that is what is interesting. We are now seeing multiple disasters all around the same "moment" in time.

Some of the disasters mentioned are things we see occationally... earthquakes and such. But when you look at the entire list of disasters.... it becomes obvious that when we get nailed with this combination of disasters.... we will know it.

The unfortunate part on the Korans behalf.... is that they have a hero prophet that comes and (attempts) to wipe out all the unbelievers. This Twelfth Madi will start the war and the end times.... and these people are looking forward to it.

[angeloneastralseed]

List of Natural disasters in 2009:

2009
Central America: Drought - Dec 2009
Albania: Floods - Dec 2009
Morocco: Floods - Dec 2009
Kenya: Floods - Dec 2009
Peru: Floods and Landslides - Dec 2009
Philippines: Mayon Volcano - Dec 2009
Fiji: Cyclone Mick - Dec 2009
Malawi: Earthquake - Dec 2009
Vanuatu: Gaua Volcano - Nov 2009
Ecuador: Drought - Nov 2009
Argentina/Uruguay: Floods - Nov 2009
Serbia: Floods - Nov 2009
China: Heavy Snowfalls - Nov 2009
Tanzania: Floods and landslides - Nov 2009
Iraq: Floods - Nov 2009
Brazil: Floods - Nov 2009
Indonesia: Floods and Landslides - Nov 2009
Panama: Floods - Nov 2009
Thailand: Floods - Nov 2009
Hurricane Ida - Nov 2009
Philippines: Floods and Landslides - Nov 2009
Typhoon Mirinae - Oct 2009
Cape Verde: Dengue Outbreak - Oct 2009
Somalia: Floods - Oct 2009
Paraguay: Floods - Oct 2009
Bolivia: Drought - Oct 2009
Nepal: Floods and Landslides - Oct 2009
India: Floods - Oct 2009
Typhoon Parma - Oct 2009
Indonesia: Sumatra Earthquake - Sep 2009
South Pacific: Tsunami - Sep 2009
Typhoon Ketsana - Sep 2009
Haiti: Floods and Mudslides - Sep 2009
Tunisia: Flash Floods - Sep 2009
Azerbaijan: Floods - Sep 2009
Bhutan: Earthquake - Sep 2009
Kenya: Floods - Sep 2009
West Africa: Floods - Jul 2009
Typhoon Koppu - Sep 2009
Mexico: Floods - Sep 2009
Tropical Storm Mujigae - Sep 2009
Georgia: Earthquake - Sep 2009
Turkey: Floods - Sep 2009
Chad: Floods - Sep 2009
Papua New Guinea: Cholera/Dysentery/Influenza Outbreak - Sep 2009
Guinea: Floods - Sep 2009
Liberia: Floods - Sep 2009
Gambia: Floods - Sep 2009
Mali: Floods - Sep 2009
Sri Lanka: Dengue Outbreak - Sep 2009
Niger: Floods - Sep 2009
Indonesia: Earthquake - Sep 2009
Burkina Faso: Floods - Sep 2009
Guatemala: Food Insecurity - Sep 2009
Hurricane Jimena - Sep 2009
Afghanistan: Flash Floods - Aug 2009
Sudan: Floods - Aug 2009
Mauritania: Floods - Aug 2009
Senegal: Floods - Aug 2009
Greece: Forest Fire - Aug 2009
Sri Lanka: Flash Floods - Aug 2009
Pakistan: Flash Floods - Aug 2009
Sierra Leone: Floods and Landslides - Aug 2009
Typhoon Morakot - Aug 2009
Nicaragua: Floods - Jul 2009
India/Bangladesh: Drought - Jul 2009
Nepal: Floods and Landslides - Jul 2009
Niger: Floods - Jul 2009
Pakistan: Floods - Jul 2009
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Floods - Jul 2009
Mongolia: Floods - Jul 2009
Philippines: Tropical Cyclone Molave - Jul 2009
Ghana: Floods - Jul 2009
China: Earthquake in Yunnan Province - Jul 2009
Gambia: Local Storm - Jul 2009
Benin: Floods - Jul 2009
Panama: Earthquake - Jul 2009
Viet Nam: Floods and Landslides - Jul 2009
Bangladesh: Floods and Landslides - Jul 2009
Myanmar: Floods and Landslides - Jul 2009
India: Floods - Jul 2009
Botswana: Floods - Jun 2009
Czech Republic: Floods - Jun 2009
Guatemala: Floods - Jun 2009
Central African Republic: Floods - Jun 2009
China: Floods - Jun 2009
Colombia: Galeras Volcano - Jun 2009
Peru: Cold Wave - Jun 2009
Honduras: Earthquake - May 2009
Argentina/Paraguay: Drought - May 2009
Tropical Cyclone Aila - May 2009
Tanzania: Explosion - May 2009
Haiti: Floods - May 2009
Philippines: Floods and Landslides - May 2009
Philippines: Typhoon Chan-hom - May 2009
Tajikistan: Floods - May 2009
Benin: Severe Local Storm - May 2009
Philippines: Typhoon Dante (Kujira) - May 2009
Brazil: Floods - Apr 2009
Influenza A (H1N1) Pandemic - Apr 2009
Tajikistan: Mudslide - Apr 2009
Afghanistan: Floods - Apr 2009
Gabon: Violent Winds - Apr 2009
Afghanistan: Earthquake - Apr 2009
Bangladesh: Tropical Cyclone Bijli - Apr 2009
Burundi: Floods - Apr 2009
Madagascar: Tropical Cyclone Jade - Apr 2009
Italy: Earthquake - Apr 2009
Indonesia: Flash Floods - Mar 2009
Colombia: Floods and Landslides - Mar 2009
Peru: Floods and Landslides - Mar 2009
Colombia: Galeras Volcano - Feb 2009
Bolivia: Floods and Landslides - Feb 2009
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Floods - Feb 2009
Argentina: Floods and Mudslides - Feb 2009
Costa Rica: Floods - Feb 2009
Australia: Wild Fire - Feb 2009
China: Drought - Feb 2009
Central African Republic: Severe Local Storm - Jan 2009
Mexico: Cold Wave - Feb 2009
Solomon Islands: Floods - Feb 2009
Dominican Republic: Floods - Jan 2009
Bosnia and Herzegovina: Cold Wave - Jan 2009
Madagascar: Tropical Storm Eric - Jan 2009
Ecuador: Floods - Jan 2009
Liberia: Insect Infestation - Jan 2009
Madagascar: Tropical Cyclone Fanele - Jan 2009
South America: Dengue Outbreak - Jan 2009
Fiji: Floods - Jan 2009
Philippines: Floods and Landslides - Jan 2009
DR Congo: Ebola outbreak - Dec 2008
Costa Rica: Earthquake - Jan 2009
Southern Africa: Floods - Dec 2008
Guatemala: Landslide - Jan 2009
Indonesia: Earthquake - Jan 2009

In the 80's the average amount of natural disasters were 52. In the 90's it was 77. From 2002 on the average amount of disasters in a given year was 130!

[Azure Butterfly Iheyu]

Now what I would like to see on the new season is anything on the Irish. I have read alot into thier legends and myths and found some interesting info on a race of beings called the " fairy ppl " some of the descriptions on them is that their a very beatiful with long light colored hair and live in palaces made of gold and silver. If you would like to read more into it go to sacredtext.com under Celtic. There are also a number of strange information on the fairy ppl that I can't explain very well.

[Ace Rimmer]

I think you are in the wrong thread Azure.

Here is a thread about what you'd like to see them address on the show.

Assuming there's a season 3

[trez17]

i am wondering what was going on in the world at the start of the mayan calender. i can't find any info on that; but plenty on the end of the calaender. LOL. if anyone has a link of info, it would be greatly appreciated.

[CrackedCat]

Most of the cultures/religions around the world all have similiar 'end times' stories. The Bible, the Koran, The Hindu's, the Sumerians. the Native American's, the I-Ching, various oracles of times past, even the greek gods and goddesses theories all have extreme ideas of the end of the world. And none of the good.

The Mayan's just have a more specific calendar... but there are also other cultures who give a date or time frame similiar to that of 12/21/12 (I can't think of them offhand yet..but will look into it).

While most of them don't give actual dates, they are all very similiar in their definition. It could be that they will all culminate on the date the Mayans gave. And most cultures picture a doom and gloom scenario. It very well could happen.

ORRRRR.... it could be a time of peace and prosperity when human kind realize that greed and war and fighting get us nowhere. Perhaps the AA's will come back then and once again move us forward towards a utopian planet of peace and love, sharing and giving. Perhaps we will ascend to a higher level of vibration, thus putting us one step closer to the Creator of All.

Or perhaps Dec. 22, 2012 will come and all will be no different than the days before.

[Hearte]

As far as I've been able to determine, there exists no Mayan "end of the world" prophecy for the end of their calendar.

The real problem is, other than four "codices," all their writings were destroyed by the Spanish. There remains some other writings in carvings in temples and tombs and the like, but for their own view of themselves and the world we are limited to these four codices.

There was one stela that mentions the return of a couple of gods in 2012, but pretty much everything that you've heard about the "Mayan End Times" is New Age claptrap.

The Mayan Popol Vuh survives, but it was written after missionaries had converted surviving Mayans so any info you get from it has to be untangled from European influence, which is a highly subjective exercise.

In fact, the only copy of the Popul Vuh any westerner has ever laid eyes on was actually transcribed by a Spanish Missionary priest.

The Mayan Chilam Balam, written in the 18th Century, documents 18th century life among the Yucatan Maya, who had already been converted by, again, Spanish missionaries.

It is all well and good to compile a list of other cultures that have an "end times" date around 2012. I'd like to see some links to info that actually shows this. As far as I've been able to tell, there are none.

The Hopi tribe was contacted by a poster in another forum concerning this subject. The tribe officially stated they do not hold what has been posted online as their beliefs.

Hearte