Laurence Gardner?

[JeffLA]

Anyone else out there read anything by this author? I am reading his "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" which is fascinating. I found someone who said he had been "officially" disproven whatever that means...

The description of this book can be found here: http://www.legendarytimesbooks.com/product.php?productid=191&cat=0&page=1
(note added by moderator)

[Ninhoersag]

I read another book about this subject wich I really can recomment:
The holy bload and the holy grail by Michael Baigent,Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln.
They have done very much research on this.

[Giorgio Tsoukalos]

Whenever you hear/read that someone or a theory in the "alternative history field" has been disproved, alarm bells should go off immediately. In most cases, those reports that someone has been disproved or debunked, are wrong. When you investigate these reports deeper, you'll conclude that they have no substance because relevant facts have been deliberatly neglected and brushed under the carpet.

For example, there are books in which authors claim that the AAT has been officially debunked. Well, has it really? Of course not. Quite on the contrary: there is more ironclad evidence today in support of the AAT than there ever was since the first AAT books came out in the 70s.

But does that prevent anyone from claiming that someone's been debunked? No. Essentially, it depends whose side you're on. People are either for the alternative field or they're not. So someone not on the side of alternative thought will automatically buy into the whole "debunker" agenda.

Have a look at my analysis of when I appeared on the National Geographic Channel recently. This is a perfect example of a bunch of shrill critics desperately trying to debunk the AAT:

http://www.legendarytimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53

Here are some other interesting books written by Laurence Gardner:

Genesis of the Grail Kings - The Explosive Story of Genetic Cloning & the Ancient Bloodline of Jesus
http://www.legendarytimesbooks.com/prod ... t=0&page=1

Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark
http://www.legendarytimesbooks.com/prod ... t=0&page=1

Realm of the Ring Lords
http://www.legendarytimesbooks.com/prod ... t=0&page=1

[JeffLA]

Yeah I figured as much. Probably someone deep in to the church using some bible quote to "disprove" anything anti-religion. HA! But I always look into anything positive or negative about these subjects.

I'm almost finished with "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" and it is so fascinating. Hard to put it down.

ps- I love my Columbian "fish" pendant!


"Here is the book of thy descent; here begins the book of the sangreal..."
-The Perlesvaus

[Gary Val Tenuta]

I've read some of Gardner's work and I've listened to him many times on Coast-to-Coast with Art Bell and George Noory. I think Gardner sometimes makes statements of fact when they're really statements of speculation that may or may not be based on facts. I don't think he means to intentionally mislead anyone, however. But that's just my opinion at this point in time.

I think, in any of this alternative work, there are bound to be mistakes made. But the debunkers seem to latch on to the mistakes or inaccuracies and then throw the whole proverbial baby out with the bathwater. That, in my oh so humble opinion, is an even bigger mistake. I'm just glad there are people like Gardner (and Giorgio!) out there doing this work. In the end it's up to all of us to be discerning and to do our own research as best we can. Trying to uncover the truths about our hidden past is monumental undertaking. But sooner or later we'll get it figured out. I hope.

[Arwenstar]

If you are interested in Arthurian Legends and the thruth about Holy Grail I can recommandate a book called Celtic Chronicles , written by Maurice Cotterell.

[Jeff Sheets]

I really enjoyed "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" myself. Being raised Catholic and (despite that) having read the Bible multiple times in the "orthodox" frame of mind, this book really peeled back the subject for me.

Its amazing how well the ancients preserved the knowledge without letting the cat out of the bag. No wonder the Ancient Greeks tried to preserve the "real" knowledge behind history and called that the "Mysteries".

I also found a few other books that support similar concepts. I see it all as puzzle pieces that get added to my coffee table from time to time; whenever something becomes sufficiently credible, I dig a bit more for credible evidence for or against. if it fits, I add it to the puzzle. One day the picture will be obvious.

Giorgio, you hit it right on the head. If you ignore relevant facts, even "accepted" theories fall down. I like to consider ALL the evidence and give each bit a relative value of probability rather than eliminate the ones deemed improbable. Eventually, something useful and credible floats to the top.

And, as Giorgio says, when the debunkers are called out on sweeping the relevant facts under the carpet, they get all the more shrill in their assertions.

Sometimes they even quote religion as if their old assertions have the backing of the ancient belief systems, all the while unaware that this only serves to confirm that (and why) they (and mankind) could just as easily have been hoodwinked by poseurs hoping to be worshipped as gods, as we AAT adherents theorize.

The holy blood and the holy grail by Michael Baigent,Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln.

This was one of my favorites too. Another is "Gods of Eden" by Bramley. In addition, if you like to connect puzzle pieces too, I recommend the book "The Dragon Legacy" by Nicolas De Vere. He claims to have family knowledge of the subject and, to be honest, he comes off slightly as somewhat of a bigot (since he claims to be OF the bloodline). However, his explanations for some of the most confusing issues of human history and legend provide more evidence and food for thought than I had initially expected. Be prepared for "new" thinking.

If we want to combine the theories of AAT with the new science of tracing genetic lineages, translating ancient writings, unravelling political intrigue, and just working out the sense of it all, we must be willing to delve deep.

Hope to see you at the next Meetup of the Gods coming up. Since you are fresh on the book, this would be a fun discussion.

ps. I love my Columbian "fish" pendant too. Sure makes for interesting conversations. Thanx Giorgio!

[P.Bateman]

De Vere comes off "slightly" as a bigot? lol

[Jeff Sheets]

Then you have read it?

Well, I guess the word "slightly" was me trying to be nice.

He is convinced that those of us that do not descend directly from the Royal Scythians haven't a chance of developing the abilities that they had.

Unfortunately he doesn't make any connection with the gods OR the same connection that David Hatcher Childress made in his "Slave Species of God" where the Aryans (who are another name for the Scythians) are descended from the Igigi, who are themselves subjects to the Annunaki gods.

From Wikipedia:

Igigi was also a term used to refer to the lesser gods (as opposed to the great gods, or Anunna). In Sumerian it means "Those who watch and see".

From http://www.earthportals.com/Portal_Messenger/nomad.html (this page uses Sitchin for most of it's material)

When Zuzu attempted to overthrow Anu and lost, his genetic line became forfeit. Only his discovery of Earth's abundant gold (the result of his flight from Nibiru in a Space Ship and subsequent landing on earth) and diplomatic trade-off with Anu for his life, prevented the utter anialation of his gene-line forever. Instead, Anu used his genetic line to make the Igigi, who then worked for the Anunaki as a Space-Based work force, manning the orbitting trans-shipment stations, and other bases throughout the solar system, such as Phobos and Luna. Those we call Greys today were created before Humanity was even an idea, through genetic manipulation. It is likely that the Nibirans developed space travel to discern the nature of the light which came and went every 3600 years; Sol as seen through their dense life-giving atmosphere. They would have needed to penetrate the atmospheric shield in order to examine the source of radiance and thus already had transport capable of extra-planetary flight. It was likely this ability which made Anu decide that salvation for Nibiru depended on placing atomized gold into the outer atmospheric layer as a shield against the stellar winds of Sol during perihelion (the solar wind combined with rising velocity as Nibiru fell into the solar gravity well, was causing erosion of its atmosphere each Passover).

It was apparently this very plan which made Zuzu revolt against Anu in the first place. It is ironic that his futile escape from Anu (earth was still unihabitable to an unshielded Nibiran) should lead instead to his fulfilling Anu's greatest need; abundant gold. It is not quite clear whether the Igigi were abandoned along with humanity when the Anunaki finally went home, or if they are carrying out the job of Earth-watching on behalf of their masters still.

So the Igigi were the technology geeks of the operation.

Now the Royal Scythians (according to de Vere) became the shadow leaders in paleolithic Europe. Called the Faire Folk, hence the legends of fairies, giants, gnomes, and the like, who eventually came to be despised for their abilities to manage and control. One by one, they have been killed off and deposed to the point that the only ones left are weak bloodline figureheads of their respective countries. De Vere identifies himself as a member of that group and therefore has a bone to pick with everyone else. Conveniently, he is an heir to his family fortune, so he has the time and the leisure to do his thing. All despots begin by claiming their blood is "pure".

My point is that de Vere may have some puzzle pieces that can be used to fill in some of the early European context and maybe even (if you believe it) some of the physiology of the Igigi bloodline. Since it is supposed to be the same as the Annunaki race, maybe we can have some clues to their abilities e.g., strength, mental capacities, etc. that caused us to see them as gods. However, the bloodline of the Igigi is parallel to that of the other gods and I expect also parallel to the bloodline of the semite royalty, of which Jesus was part.

[Moon]

Laurence Gardner is a very good author, but his books can be very dry to read. He has many facts and figures that he goes over, and one of his faults is that many of his books repeat these same facts over and over again.

Holy Blood, Holy Grail is the one main book about this subject that really delves into the history and is backed up by some great research into the subject. The three authors have other books on the subject, and some are good, some are not so good.

A good thing to do is read all the reviews (including bad ones) to see what the books are about and if they actually have some good information in them.

Laurence Gardner does, but in looking at what he has written, one can pare them down to three or four books.

[PegasusAngel]

I've only read Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark and it was hard to put down...fascinating stuff...I liked his style of writing, maybe it was slightly different to the others, but the subject matter was what intrigued me.

Read all about the Holy Grail stuff via Michael Baigent, so I don't think I'll bother at this point to read Gardener's view for the time being...

[Moon]

Mr Gardner's view is the same as the other authors. He usually tries to tie it in with the existing House of Stuart as he believes they are part of the bloodline of Jesus.

[mahalla2]

Mr Gardner's view is the same as the other authors. He usually tries to tie it in with the existing House of Stuart as he believes they are part of the bloodline of Jesus.

Max - Do you know if there was a Julia Stuart or Stewart in this lineage? Just wondering -

[Moon]

Max - Do you know if there was a Julia Stuart or Stewart in this lineage? Just wondering -

I have not read all of his books, but I think a few of them actually lists the bloodline. Here is a website of his where you can contact him as he does know the full bloodlines of the Stuart/Stewart family:

http://graal.co.uk/index.php

[mahalla2]

Max - Do you know if there was a Julia Stuart or Stewart in this lineage? Just wondering -

I have not read all of his books, but I think a few of them actually lists the bloodline. Here is a website of his where you can contact him as he does know the full bloodlines of the Stuart/Stewart family:

http://graal.co.uk/index.php[/quote

thanks Max - I have read Holy Blood, Holy Grail and thought it was a very remarkable book.

[mahalla2]

Max - Do you know if there was a Julia Stuart or Stewart in this lineage? Just wondering -

I have not read all of his books, but I think a few of them actually lists the bloodline. Here is a website of his where you can contact him as he does know the full bloodlines of the Stuart/Stewart family:

http://graal.co.uk/index.php

I realize we are not suppose to double post but I thought it was important to let people who did not know (including me) that Laurence Gardner passed away on August 12, 2010. Here is a link to an obituary article in regards to him and his interesting life:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obitu ... 56096.html

[PegasusAngel]

Wow, I did not know that!!!!

[Moon]

That is very sad news, mahalla2. I also did not know that is there was nothing mentioned in the media about this. They also ignored Zecharia Sitchin's passing (except the newspaper story where he was from).

My thoughts do go out to his family and close friends.

I also hope someone continues his work at proving the Jesus Bloodlines.

[PegasusAngel]

I also hope someone continues his work at proving the Jesus Bloodlines.

Me too, his work is very important, especially the stuff about the Ark of the Covenant...