Ancient Nuclear Reactors

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Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Steele Faucet » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:11 pm

I read about this "phenomenon" a while ago and haven't seen anything about it on any message board here. I'm bringing it up now because it has relevance to what is occurring in Japan with their nuclear situation.

Skipping most of the details, the main point of the story is that in Oklo scientists discovered 16 self-sustaining nuclear reactors. These reactors used their own waste, and were naturally moderated in cycles by water. These reactors have been dated to 2 billion years ago, and the little amount of radioactive waste produced by the reactors has only moved a few centimeters in rock.

http://www.s8int.com/atomic2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nu ... on_reactor

This next site is an analysis of the reactors: http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ar-reactor

So let me get this straight...Something so technical and advanced that takes engineers and physicists until the 20th century to design and build occurred in nature as a freak event? And not just once, but 16 times at one location? And the model used by nature is still more advanced than any reactors we use today? COME ON!

Anyone have any thoughts/ideas about this? Shocked as I was to read this?
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:56 pm

For some additional information, see this post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3081&p=27853#p27853

I guess scientists have discovered that there was a nuclear explosion on Mars... They claim it is the same "natural" process as the Oklo reactors.
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Moon » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:18 pm

I had forgotten about those nuclear reactors that are eons old on the Earth. This is the same thing they said happened on Mars. I also wonder how something like this has happened.

Thank you for posting it and I hope they seriously study this phenomenon.
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Hearte » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:30 am

Before the first site of naturally-occuring nuclear fission was ever discovered, the existence of such sites was predicted by nuclear scientists.

I believe it was back in the early to mid 1950's when this was predicted.

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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Steele Faucet » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:40 pm

Hearte wrote:Before the first site of naturally-occuring nuclear fission was ever discovered, the existence of such sites was predicted by nuclear scientists.

I believe it was back in the early to mid 1950's when this was predicted.

Hearte


Correct. From the site http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... ar-reactor the author states them below.

"Paul K. Kuroda, a chemist from the University of Arkansas, calculated what it would take for a uraniumore body spontaneously to undergo self-sustained fission. In this process, a stray neutron causes a uranium 235 nucleus to split, which gives off more neutrons, causing others of these atoms to break apart in a nuclear chain reaction.

Kuroda’s first condition was that the size of the uranium deposit should exceed the average length that fission-inducing neutrons travel, about two thirds of a meter. This requirement helps to ensure that the neutrons given off by one fissioning nucleus are absorbed by another before escaping from the uranium vein.

A second prerequisite is that uranium 235 must be present in sufficient abundance. Today even the most massive and concentrated uranium deposit cannot become a nuclear reactor, because the uranium 235 concentration, at less than 1 percent, is just too low. But this isotope is radioactive and decays about six times faster than does uranium 238, which indicates that the fissile fraction was much higher in the distant past. For example, two billion years ago (about when the Oklo deposit formed) uranium 235 must have constituted approximately 3 percent, which is roughly the level provided artificially in the enriched uranium used to fuel most nuclear power stations.

The third important ingredient is a neutron “moderator,” a substance that can slow the neutrons given off when a uranium nucleus splits so that they are more apt to induce other uranium nuclei to break apart.

Finally, there should be no significant amounts of boron, lithium or other so-called poisons, which absorb neutrons and would thus bring any nuclear reaction to a swift halt.

Amazingly, the actual conditions that prevailed two billion years ago in what researchers eventually determined to be 16 separate areas within the Oklo and adjacent Okelobondo uranium mines were very close to what Kuroda outlined."


This author studied Xenon to learn more about the reactors, and these were his thoughts...

"Our first surprise was the location of the xenon. It was not, as we had expected, found to a significant extent in the uranium-rich mineral grains. Rather the lion’s share was trapped in aluminum phosphate minerals, which contain no uranium at all. Remarkably, these grains showed the highest concentration of xenon ever found in any natural material. The second epiphany was that the extracted gas had a significantly different isotopic makeup from what is usually produced in nuclear reactors. It had seemingly lost a large portion of the xenon 136 and 134 that would certainly have been created from fission, whereas the lighter varieties of the element were modified to a lesser extent.

How could such a change in isotopic composition have come about? Chemical reactions would not do the trick, because all isotopes are chemically identical. Perhaps nuclear reactions, such as neutron capture? Careful analysis allowed my colleagues and me to reject this possibility as well."

He goes on to give a hypothesis, but admits that there are things he does not understand.


I'm just a little skeptical that nature made something so perfect under a very specific set of circumstances. I can understand it happening once, maybe twice. But when it happens 16 times in a region...
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:14 pm

Steele Faucet wrote:I'm just a little skeptical that nature made something so perfect under a very specific set of circumstances. I can understand it happening once, maybe twice. But when it happens 16 times in a region...


Yeah, it is nearly as unlikely as a space-faring race near-enough to visit us within about the last 100,000 years. Over and over again.

Kinda like the probability that Earth is the only planet within reaching distance of another similar ecosystem...who knows if it is natural.

However, since I have not visited Oklo myself, I have to depend on the online sources that say that this area was mined extensively and had adjacent habitations (how old?). Was Oklo an intentional nuclear reactor? There was an irrigation system that could have buffered the temperatue. Mining would have improved concentrations enough to keep things pretty warm.

Carrying that out to Mars, the Book of Enki spends a chapter or two on the exile of gods to Mars. This was a scientific expedition that was left to their own devices. Did they fight a war? Was it part of the war in the heavens? One thing to note: The Oklo reactions were low level nuclear chain-reactions, while the Mars reaction was sudden enough to cause an exposion that "shows a big red spot that looks like a debris pattern. On the opposite side of the planet there is another similar red spot." This isn't natural...

(Rereads article)

Unless someone is mistaken, scientists are claiming that nature designed and built a nuclear bomb by chance. And that it obliterated part of Mars and sent shards in all directions. Alternatively, this is evidence for not only the intelligient creation of a nuclear bomb that was set off, but also that someone sentient was at Mars at the time to do it. All we need to prove it beyond a doubt is to find the habitation on Mars where they lived. The late Zechariah Sitchin translated Assyrian tablets of cuneoform to write the Stairway to Heaven series of books that describe the Annunaki and their dealings with mankind. The ancient books of the Ramayana and Mahabharata describe terrible weapons that killed all life. Victims of the attack would wash at the streams and lose hair and fingernails. The weapons were hurled from Vimanas, the flying chariots of the gods.
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Steele Faucet » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:58 pm

Jeff Sheets wrote:Carrying that out to Mars, the Book of Enki spends a chapter or two on the exile of gods to Mars. This was a scientific expedition that was left to their own devices. Did they fight a war? Was it part of the war in the heavens? One thing to note: The Oklo reactions were low level nuclear chain-reactions, while the Mars reaction was sudden enough to cause an exposion that "shows a big red spot that looks like a debris pattern. On the opposite side of the planet there is another similar red spot." This isn't natural...

(Rereads article)

Unless someone is mistaken, scientists are claiming that nature designed and built a nuclear bomb by chance. And that it obliterated part of Mars and sent shards in all directions. Alternatively, this is evidence for not only the intelligient creation of a nuclear bomb that was set off, but also that someone sentient was at Mars at the time to do it. All we need to prove it beyond a doubt is to find the habitation on Mars where they lived. The late Zechariah Sitchin translated Assyrian tablets of cuneoform to write the Stairway to Heaven series of books that describe the Annunaki and their dealings with mankind. The ancient books of the Ramayana and Mahabharata describe terrible weapons that killed all life. Victims of the attack would wash at the streams and lose hair and fingernails. The weapons were hurled from Vimanas, the flying chariots of the gods.



Yea, it must have been the same set of natural circumstances lol.

The first thing I thought when I read the post the first time was ok, 1 red spot, 1 explosion. Seems pretty implausible that nature could engineer something that great. But now there's 2, and they're on opposite sides of the planet? Hmmm... With that type of firepower, you wouldn't need more than a couple to take out a whole planet, or at least severely cripple whomever it is you're firing upon.

I've heard the stories of the vimanas and I've seen the pics of the glass formations in the deserts (not just in the middle east, but in the southwest US). Very interesting. I also like how it is said that the animals wouldn't touch the dead bodies laying in the streets. Similar to Japan? I think so.
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:17 pm

Two exposions? I guess I was thinking that the one explosion would send radiation to the other side of the planet via atmosphere and skip. And in the process blew all the atmosphere to space. Two explosions just cuts the odds in half. A million to one or 500,000 to one. If you leave it to chance.

Why don't they consider this evidence of AA intervention?
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Hearte » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:47 am

A lack of basic understanding in science can lead one to any number of false speculations.

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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:34 am

Hearte wrote:A lack of basic understanding in science can lead one to any number of false speculations.

Hearte


Its ALL speculation until it is proven or disproven...We don't really get to participate though, so we talk about it.
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Steele Faucet » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:54 am

Hearte wrote:A lack of basic understanding in science can lead one to any number of false speculations.

Hearte


What does that mean? I have my doctorate in a scientific field. I've taken classes where we worked with live radiation in a lab. I was pointing out things that I thought were very unusual. Just because someone predicts that an event is possible, and then it is found that the event occurred, doesn't mean that it automatically happened as was predicted.

And as far as dropping bombs on Mars, I believe Jeff stated something along the lines of someone was getting impatient and trying to knock out the planet themselves. I was playing off that.

All I was trying to do was open a topic up for discussion. I thought it was very unusual and didn't think very many people knew about it. In the links I had along with it, it talked about how these conditions were predicted, but it also talked about how we are seeing things out of there in elements that we can't explain. If you're not going to read what I post, then slam what I post, then basically call me an idiot, why?
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Pons Asinorum » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:13 am

Steele Faucet wrote:He goes on to give a hypothesis, but admits that there are things he does not understand.


Here is Dr. Paul K. Kuroda's words, regarding the unexpected ratio of xenon 136 to xenon 134 (my emphasis):

Scientific American, The Workings of an Ancient Nuclear Reactor, 01/26/09, by Alex P. Meshik who wrote:Our understanding of the anomalous composition of the xenon came only after we thought harder about how this gas was born. None of the xenon isotopes we measured were the direct result of uranium fission. Rather they were the products of the decay of radioactive isotopes of iodine, which in turn were formed from radioactive tellurium and so forth, according to a well-known sequence of nuclear reactions that gives rise to stable xenon.

Our key insight was the realization that different xenon isotopes in our Oklo sample were created at different times— following a schedule that depended on the half-lives of their iodine parents and tellurium grandparents. The longer a particular radioactive precursor lives, the longer xenon formation from it is held off. For example, production of xenon 136 began at Oklo only about a minute after the onset of self-sustained fission. An hour later the next lighter stable isotope, xenon 134, appeared. Then, some days after the start of fission, xenon 132 and 131 came on the scene. Finally, after millions of years, and well after the nuclear chain reactions terminated, xenon 129 formed.


This appears, to me anyway, to be a statement of fact and not an hypothesis, whereas his hypothesis is an explanation of how a controlled chain reaction can occur in nature (which he later matches with the evidence of the site).

Toward the end of the article, he adds this possibility:

Scientific American, The Workings of an Ancient Nuclear Reactor, 01/26/09, by Alex P. Meshik who wrote:This picture of how the Oklo reactors probably worked highlights two important points: very likely they pulsed on and off in some fashion, and large quantities of water must have been moving through these rocks—enough to wash away some of the xenon precursors, tellurium and iodine, which are water-soluble. The presence of water also helps to explain why most of the xenon now resides in grains of aluminum phosphate rather than in the uranium rich minerals where fission first created these radioactive precursors. The xenon did not simply migrate from one set of preexisting minerals to another—it is unlikely that aluminum phosphate minerals were present before the Oklo reactors began operating. Instead those grains of aluminum phosphate probably formed in place through the action of the nuclear-heated water, once it had cooled to about 300 degrees Celsius.

It is not entirely obvious what forces kept this xenon inside the aluminum phosphate minerals for almost half the planet’s lifetime. In particular, why was the xenon generated during a given operational pulse not driven off during the next one? Presumably it became imprisoned in the cagelike structure of the aluminum phosphate minerals, which were able to hold on to the xenon gas created within them, even at high temperatures. The details remain fuzzy, but whatever the final answers are, one thing is clear: the capacity of aluminum phosphate for capturing xenon is truly amazing.


--

Kuroda matches the evidence found at Oklo to his (self-sustaining chain-reaction) theory and IMHO does an excellent job:

* had to be at least 2 billion years old (because of half-life of U325)
* the deposit had to be a certain size and abundance
* a substance acting as a neutron “moderator" must be present, like water (which needs to boil away)
* the absence of certain element that would have prohibited the reaction

In the case of the Oklo site, these factors are all confirmed and the resultant yield-products are present, although the time factor involved did impact: the ratios found (determined), some of the types of isotopes present (explained), and how a few of those isotopes formed (speculative). Overall, a remarkable feat for Kuroda with the evidence supporting his theory and no evidence excluding it.

--

Given that the first factor listed above is absolutely certain (Earth is over 4.4 billion years old) and the last couple of factors are quite common, and then it is perhaps a distinct possibility that appropriate circumstances might occur for a natural, self-sustaining chain-reaction to take place. Given that the empirical evidence does fit Kuroda's theory, then it is certainly reasonable.

The fact that 16 reactions occurred in the same area where the necessary conditions were present is testament that the circumstances in that area were of the correct nature. This is a reflection of the old saying, "most important numbers in science: 0, 1, and 2."

ZERO: means it does not exist
ONE: means it does exist
TWO: means if it exists more than once, then it can exist multiple times.

Now if these reactions occurred millions of years ago, or in several different geographical areas where the conditions were largely not conducive to a natural process, or if the reaction products contained unexplainable isotopes, then all bets are off, but given the evidence and circumstances (and lack of anything remotely indicative of an artificial reactor), this may not be the best AAT propositional stand. (of course, if a manual is found is some strange script at the correct strata level, entitled: "How to Operate the Nuclear Reactor...well, game on.")

--

An uncontrolled chain-reaction, that is a different matter, but I did not see any mention of this except in the Jeff Sheets thread about such a possibility occurring on Mars. Also, is a natural, uncontrolled, fission chain-reaction possible (aka: an atomic explosion) and if is, how likely? If it turns out hat such an occurrence is unlikely, and if there was such an explosion on Mars: whoa. Even if the Mars reaction was controlled, if the requisite conditions were not present, then same thing: whoa. That is a theory that should be followed-up.

--

One last thing, second to last paragraph he adds this tidbit:

"For three decades, the two-billion-year old Oklo phenomenon has been used to argue against [the fundamental physical constant known as Alpha] having changed. But last year Steven K. Lamoreaux and Justin R. Torgerson of Los Alamos National Laboratory drew on Oklo to posit that this “constant” has, in fact, varied significantly (and, strangely enough, in the opposite sense from what others have recently proposed)."

Dude!

This is incredibly cool, just mentioned in passing!
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:43 pm

Steele Faucet wrote:
Hearte wrote:A lack of basic understanding in science can lead one to any number of false speculations.

Hearte


What does that mean? I have my doctorate in a scientific field. I've taken classes where we worked with live radiation in a lab. I was pointing out things that I thought were very unusual. Just because someone predicts that an event is possible, and then it is found that the event occurred, doesn't mean that it automatically happened as was predicted.

And as far as dropping bombs on Mars, I believe Jeff stated something along the lines of someone was getting impatient and trying to knock out the planet themselves. I was playing off that.

All I was trying to do was open a topic up for discussion. I thought it was very unusual and didn't think very many people knew about it. In the links I had along with it, it talked about how these conditions were predicted, but it also talked about how we are seeing things out of there in elements that we can't explain. If you're not going to read what I post, then slam what I post, then basically call me an idiot, why?


Steele Faucet, I don't think Hearte called anyone an idiot. He just doesn't buy the AAT. Anything we say that even supports it, he can shrug it off as nuttery. This was obviously not a personal attack, it was a GENERAL attack on believers. We should all have a thicker skin than that anyway.

Hearte, please stop being such a wet blanket. I don't know why you even post on this forum. You gotta know that we ALL KNOW the reason why the AAT is not mainstream is because it isn't accepted by the ruling scientific class. That because our "evidence" isn't even considered, let alone accepted. As a member of this forum, I am asking you to get a grip and realize what forum this is. If you are so smart, then please share any REAL evidence you may have for the existence of Ancient Astronauts. Otherwise, I suggest that you should just be a lurker because all you are doing is annoying everyone with pious science snobbery.

It is obvious that both the Mahabharata and the Sumerian tablets existed before we knew of the existence of nuclear reactors. How can they describe something that had never been invented until recently? Im just saying that the very existence of this has to be weighed. If these reactors are indeed natural, then it is (of course) all speculation on our part. If on the other hand, it is a relative improbability, then who created them? God? Maybe Bill Gates jumped in a time machine and created them and then planted the written info? cause thats what it comes down to in my mind, since science isn't doing such a good job explaining it.

-Jeff
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Hearte » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:50 am

Steele Faucet wrote:
Hearte wrote:A lack of basic understanding in science can lead one to any number of false speculations.

Hearte

If you're not going to read what I post, then slam what I post, then basically call me an idiot, why?

Steele Faucet wrote:So let me get this straight...Something so technical and advanced that takes engineers and physicists until the 20th century to design and build occurred in nature as a freak event? And not just once, but 16 times at one location? And the model used by nature is still more advanced than any reactors we use today? COME ON!

The problem with designing and building a nuclear facility is the safety factor and nothing else.

It is the control of a chain reaction that is tricky, not the establishment of one.

If you believe (for some reason) that the idea of a natural chain reaction occuring is slim, then you apparently don't understand the Sun. I mean, it's undergoing fusion and we have yet to be able to design and build a fusion plant. So, the Sun must then be an artificial construct? What about the other stars? Also artificial?

Jeff Sheets wrote:Hearte, please stop being such a wet blanket. I don't know why you even post on this forum. You gotta know that we ALL KNOW the reason why the AAT is not mainstream is because it isn't accepted by the ruling scientific class. That because our "evidence" isn't even considered, let alone accepted. As a member of this forum, I am asking you to get a grip and realize what forum this is. If you are so smart, then please share any REAL evidence you may have for the existence of Ancient Astronauts.

There exists no REAL evidence that I know of. I'm here looking for some. I've yet to see anything here that could even be called evidence.
Jeff Sheets wrote:Otherwise, I suggest that you should just be a lurker because all you are doing is annoying everyone with pious science snobbery.

Pious science snobbery?

I suppose that you wish science would leave you alone with your ancient aliens then?

How do you reconcile this with your complaint that science won't even consider your evidence?

My point is that arguments for the existence of ancient alien contact cannot be made through fallacious and nonscientific means (such as exclaiming that nuclear reactors are hard to build, so nuclear reactions must be hard to initiate.)

If you prefer not to look at the subject this way, then you are doomed to forever complaining about how science won't even look at your "evidence," not realizing that you have none.
Jeff Sheets wrote:It is obvious that both the Mahabharata and the Sumerian tablets existed before we knew of the existence of nuclear reactors. How can they describe something that had never been invented until recently?

I've yet to see where either culture described anything like a nuclear reaction of any kind (other than, obviously, sunshine.)

I know what fanatics like Childress have claimed about this, but I've read the pertinent portions of the Mahabharata (the whole thing is at Sacred-Texts.com) and they don't say what he claims.

I've also seen the claims about Mohenjo-Daro and I've discovered those claims are pretty much blatant lies. If you look, you will discover this too.

Jeff Sheets wrote:Im just saying that the very existence of this has to be weighed. If these reactors are indeed natural, then it is (of course) all speculation on our part.

Of course they are natural. The resulting waste material is still in situ, there are no constituencies for removal of heat (the only useable byproduct of a fission reaction,) and there is no structure in the area or in the ground that accompanies the found materials.

Radioactive materials decay. End of story.

Jeff Sheets wrote: then who created them? God? Maybe Bill Gates jumped in a time machine and created them and then planted the written info? cause thats what it comes down to in my mind, since science isn't doing such a good job explaining it.

I don't understand what you mean. That is, science actually predicted such things, yet you claim they don't do a good job explaining it?


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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Bob137 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:52 pm

I know what fanatics like Childress have claimed about this, but I've read the pertinent portions of the Mahabharata (the whole thing is at Sacred-Texts.com) and they don't say what he claims.
that is total BS, I have actually read those texts many years ago, probably when you were still indiapers, and they do state of flying machines utilizing weapons of mass destruction, and what happens to the people around then! So don't go off the handle and try to
BS us here Unhearte, you obviously think you can BS a lot of people, maybe that is what you do with your students, and they ar elike sheep who follow your every word, but here, not likely!
Here we do speculate, just as mainstream scientist do, the difference is, we do have an open mind, and utilize an honest discussion forum, which is not entirely true of mainstream science! I could start with the evolutionary theory and all of the fakes and lies from just that area!

Edited by moderator to highlight inflammatory context...
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Hearte » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 am

Bob137 wrote:
I know what fanatics like Childress have claimed about this, but I've read the pertinent portions of the Mahabharata (the whole thing is at Sacred-Texts.com) and they don't say what he claims.
that is total BS, I have actually read those texts many years ago, probably when you were still indiapers, and they do state of flying machines utilizing weapons of mass destruction,

I'm 55.
Look:
Consider these verses from the ancient Mahabharata*:

...(it was) a single projectile
Charged with all the power of the Universe.
An incandescent column of smoke and flame
As bright as the thousand suns
Rose in all its splendour...

...it was an unknown weapon,
An iron thunderbolt,
A gigantic messenger of death,
Which reduced to ashes
The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas.

...The corpses were so burned
As to be unrecognisable.
The hair and nails fell out;
Pottery broke without apparent cause,
And the birds turned white.

After a few hours
All foodstuffs were infected...
....to escape from this fire
The soldiers threw themselves in streams
To wash themselves and their equipment.24

* Berlitz, Charles, Mysteries of Forgotten Worlds, Doubleday, New York, 1972.

Source: David Hatcher Childress, Chapter 6 of the book "Technology of the Gods : The Incredible Sciences of the Ancients" http://www.world-mysteries.com/pex_6.htm.

The above passage Childress (and Berlitz) claim to be from the Mahabharata is, in fact, nowhere in the Mahabharata.

For example, where they claim the Mahabharata says their hair and nails fell out, it actually says that rats ate the hair and nails from the dead. The "infected foodstuff" is actually about worms and bugs (created by a magical weapon) crawling all through their food.

There is no mention of soldiers washing as I recall.

I should also state here that the passages in the Mahabharata that in any way relate to the above are separated in that book by hundreds of pages and aren't concerned with any one weapon or even relating to the same part of the story - and some aren't even about the aftermath of any weapon.

That fact stands in stark and revealing contrast to the way Berlitz (and Childress) make the thing sound.

(Moderator's emphasis:) I'm certainly not interested in your opinion, and since you jumped the gun on this, I seriously doubt you've ever read the Mahabharata or you would know this.

Regarding Mohenjo-Daro, here's a link to the oldest source on the web for this tall tale:
http://www.rense.com/general3/8000.htm

(Moderator's emphasis:) That was the fraud I was referring to, as if you care.

Hearte
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Bob137 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:34 am

http://www.atlantisquest.com/Asura.html Here is just one of many hundreds of sites that state the Mahabarata's Nuclear War! (Moderator's emphasis:) So stop the BS to everyone, and get real! I know you do not like the truth, because the truth hurts!
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DEBUNKING tips

Postby Jeff Sheets » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:35 pm

OK, may I suggest that we should all back off and try and be a bit more respectful on this forum. It's not here for arguments but rather for discussion. We have as much chance of agreeing with mainstream science as the next extinction event. Not gonna happen. If this was a court of law, we would have a different definition of truth anyway.

If someone disagrees with general AAT theories or tries to debunk them, then so be it. Just be respectful! Meanwhile, we should all be respectful in return as some debunker tries to describe what are seen as flaws in our ideas. Maybe they get a little animated and are just lashing out cause we aren't agreeing with them? That won't be tolerated for long on either side of the argument...just saying.

Again, if you don't believe in AAT, then please refrain from posting unless you can do more than recite the same ad-nauseum mainstream science pablum. Its not likely going to change or convince me anyway. Meanwhile, since this board is open to all beliefs, don't look for a moderator to ban this kind of posting, if it follows the rules. On the other hand, if we stray further into the personal attacks on other members, then the offending member could be banned, so keep it nice please.

NOTE: I have highlighted in red any language used in previous posts that could have been construed as a personal attack. In the future, please leave terms like that out of the discussion.

Maybe we need a debunker's corner so we can move all the vitreol there? That way, some of us can just avoid the place :mrgreen:

Hearte wrote:There exists no REAL evidence that I know of. I'm here looking for some. I've yet to see anything here that could even be called evidence.


If you have found nothing, why are you even here posting on this forum? do you "want to believe" or something like that? I have nothing against science, per se, but some of the answers it provides doesn't make enough sense to believe on this topic. AAT answers those questions in its own way. We are discussing those answers here to decide what to believe. I bet Giorgio will submit the peer-reviewed paper to the science journals in his own good time :lol: like they would even read it, let alone publish...

-Jeff
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The art of life is to go confidently, without
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Bob137 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:02 pm

Roger that, I just get a little peeved at the mainstream they are always right thinking and we are always wrong, no matter what evidence or writings are found. Such as the Mahabarata, which is by definition an account of what transpired thousands of years ago. Some from India believe it is an account even older than that possibly tens of thousands. There are Archeologists from India that are trying to get mainstream to change their way of thinking on their documents and history of what transpired on this planet, and it is unsettling, that most have been sent to deaf ears, and blind eyes. I again apologize for any unkind remarks, which is not my place to do, and will again refrain from such, I will just not respond to any more of Hearte's comments, or writings, as to me, they are really not worth getting worked up about, or risk getting kicked off of this forum for!
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:14 pm

The best defense is never to take offense.
The second best defense is never to offend.
The third best defense is to keep quiet...That one always trips me up
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The art of life is to go confidently, without
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Valkyr » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:02 am

Harte, don't u have anything to do bro??? I found u on another site, Doing the same thing here. Debunking any information u think is false. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby DivineQueer » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:25 am

To Hearte's defense, I would like to point out that it in fact is very appreciated AND important for the AAT-Research to know when certain pieces of texts and quotes are actually false, so that those pieces of 'info' is not basuned out as truth and in that way makes those repeating the texts to seem like hoaxers, although they aren't. So don't be too hard on him. :)

That said, I do also consider him being much too stubborn sometimes for no other apparent reason than just to be stubborn, so I also understand those getting frustrated with him. :lol:

Regarding the very topic in question, and, in my opinion, AA is not only a NEARLY evident fact but it is also apparent by reading many ancient texts that High-tech ancient wars indeed were fought, so in my opinion, that is not very much of a question.
It is, however, very important to know what is truly genuine ancient material and what is actually a modern and "constructed" material, claimed as genuine.

The AA-topic is indeed a detective-work and that is just one of many things that also makes the topic so exiting. :D
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Jeff Sheets » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:38 am

DivineQueer wrote:To Hearte's defense, I would like to point out that it in fact is very appreciated AND important for the AAT-Research to know when certain pieces of texts and quotes are actually false, so that those pieces of 'info' is not basuned out as truth and in that way makes those repeating the texts to seem like hoaxers, although they aren't. So don't be too hard on him. :)

That said, I do also consider him being much too stubborn sometimes for no other apparent reason than just to be stubborn, so I also understand those getting frustrated with him. :lol:

Regarding the very topic in question, and, in my opinion, AA is not only a NEARLY evident fact but it is also apparent by reading many ancient texts that High-tech ancient wars indeed were fought, so in my opinion, that is not very much of a question.
It is, however, very important to know what is truly genuine ancient material and what is actually a modern and "constructed" material, claimed as genuine.

The AA-topic is indeed a detective-work and that is just one of many things that also makes the topic so exciting. :D


There is a difference between pointing out (possible) mistranslations or incorrect conclusions...and authoritatively rubbing everyone's nose in it. This forum is not a scientific paper to be peer-reviewed, nor a court of law that every assertion must be proved or disproved. We are here to discuss our favorite subject. If you want to debunk, do that on some other site. And no, we have not been very hard on him by comparison.

I want everyone to be able to bring up new research, present their ideas, and discuss things without risking personal attacks and negative innuendo. Obviously, some things are not going to turn out true. Thats fine. Other things need detective work. Lets keep the wet blankets to a minimum though. We get enough of that in our personal lives...

As far as inaccuracy of translations...I think the king james bible is probably the most suspect of anything. Good luck getting anybody to agree on what IT says.
-Jeff
Forge of Creation - http://www.aliengods.jbsheets.com

The art of life is to go confidently, without
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master the four natural challenges:
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Desire to Rest.
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby DivineQueer » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:49 pm

Jeff Sheets wrote:
There is a difference between pointing out (possible) mistranslations or incorrect conclusions...and authoritatively rubbing everyone's nose in it. This forum is not a scientific paper to be peer-reviewed, nor a court of law that every assertion must be proved or disproved. We are here to discuss our favorite subject. If you want to debunk, do that on some other site. And no, we have not been very hard on him by comparison.

I want everyone to be able to bring up new research, present their ideas, and discuss things without risking personal attacks and negative innuendo. Obviously, some things are not going to turn out true. Thats fine. Other things need detective work. Lets keep the wet blankets to a minimum though. We get enough of that in our personal lives...

As far as inaccuracy of translations...I think the king james bible is probably the most suspect of anything. Good luck getting anybody to agree on what IT says.
-Jeff



I believe you probably missunderstood what I said, as I certainly is not out to "debunk", as I am already a hardcore believer. And, I also agree that "You" nor have been actually hard on Hearte at all.
That said, and already being a hard believer, it does not mean that I gladly swallow every wow-material that is stated as fact without even questioning it only because it says something I would WANT to be true, and that is also the reason as for why it is so important to do Cross-checking of the material.
And whether the believers likes it or not, it IS important for the AA-research, as hoaxed material is the life-nourishment for the Debunkers that indeed takes every chance they can to strike down each and every time these instances are found. Therefore, keeping the research as freed as possible from hoaxes and flufftheories(such as people being transformed into walking flashlights in 2012 and the White House being run by lizzards in suits and dresses), is one of the sharpest weapons against these Debunkers.
And ofcourse true discussions is required and not blind debunking. That is what I meant with "Detective-research"; to thoroughly search out what material is actually genuine and what is not.

It is not about blindly throwing "wet blankets" around as some pseudoscheptics do without even doing any research, but about checking up the material- Two different things.
So again; You indeed missunderstood me. :wink:

By the way and speaking of The Bible, They are funnily enough speaking about it right now on the Television beside me.
The Bible, I believe, are practically true in its overall material, but the truth in it is so edited and twisted that alot of it has been inrecognizable, Plus, the problem that people can't agree on what it is saying, is to a great part because most of them either wants to use it only to defend their own prejudices and don't really care what it says beyond that, OR, people reads it strictly symbolically and not literaly, for if they read it literally, they would realize that it is saying alot of things they have a hard time accepting because of their religion and personal opinions.
If everybody instead would read it strictly literaly, very few would disagree on what it is saying when, for instance, a piece of text describes that God ordered people to seal of a large area, as he would "Descend upon it in fire". Not much of a choice of the meaning there. :roll:
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Bob137 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:22 pm

In regards to the Mahabarata I had read that a long time before it was ever popularized, and the sources were from India, and Britain. On the Bible thing, I have researched numerous books in regards to the similarities of the Sumerians and the Israelites, and the Egyptians, and the people of India, in regards to their writings, myths, and legends, and normal every day beliefs, and living. I have found that they seem to have come from a centralized belief system and generalities of the so called Gods from the basis of the people of India and the advent of peoples migrating from their to other countries, not the other way around as speculated by historians. This is also something many scholars of India are also concluding and trying to get mainstream science to check into!
Bob137
 
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby DivineQueer » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:14 am

Bob137 wrote:In regards to the Mahabarata I had read that a long time before it was ever popularized, and the sources were from India, and Britain. On the Bible thing, I have researched numerous books in regards to the similarities of the Sumerians and the Israelites, and the Egyptians, and the people of India, in regards to their writings, myths, and legends, and normal every day beliefs, and living. I have found that they seem to have come from a centralized belief system and generalities of the so called Gods from the basis of the people of India and the advent of peoples migrating from their to other countries, not the other way around as speculated by historians. This is also something many scholars of India are also concluding and trying to get mainstream science to check into!



Indeed very interesting, yes. Although one must not forget Mesopotamian material such as The Sumerian King List, that, if factual, strecthes back several hundreds of thousands of years, long before the two last Indian yugas existed, if my memory serves me right. If so, then Sumer and India seems to be the two migrational aswell as religious"Startpoints" together.

The Indians, by the way, have tried several times to get mainstream Science and Media to follow up on other findings through the years, but apparently there is some invisible plug somewhere blocking the outlet, for those findings never seem to reach the larger Medias. :roll:
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby Bob137 » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:47 am

I agree, it seems for no other reasoning than goes against the mainstream way of thinking of our history on this earth. I believe the Sumerian King's list might also be promising, for earlier dating of our civilization, along with the documents from India. AS underwater archeology is now coming more and more to the forefront, and exposing so many underwater cities, it only gets better, on getting historians to change their views on our ancient history, and seafarers, and possible advanced civilizations, that existed long ago!
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Re: Ancient Nuclear Reactors

Postby armedequation » Wed May 18, 2011 1:24 pm

A lack of basic understanding in science can lead one to any number of false speculations


but that could be said about anything true? A basic speculation thought to be true can also lead to many false misunderstandings

from my understanding both events (oklo,mars) can happen naturally but there are certain circumstances with both that set them apart:
~Oklo is set up for this to happen but for it to happen twice let alone 16 times is not natural?
~Mars appears to have had its occurance contained in a way to cause a bigger explosion? (why am i finding that i am addicted to anything mars?)



The Indians, by the way, have tried several times to get mainstream Science and Media to follow up on other findings through the years, but apparently there is some invisible plug somewhere blocking the outlet, for those findings never seem to reach the larger Medias


problem is how most media treats this stuff. Most of the time I see one of 3 things happen:
1)laugh while they "report" on it
2)eye rolls
3) by far my favorite is the blank expression where they have no idea what the heck they are trying to convey while they read the teleprompter
armedequation
 
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