Theory wrote:I have a question about the dna testing. For them to identify him by dna wouldn't they need another sample to compare it to? If so where did they get this other sample?
Theory wrote:He doesn't have any full blooded sibilings, but he does have a crap load of half sibilings. From what I read in the artical below, they do not know for a fact that this was osama, it very well could've been a relative of his. Until, they can get his mother to do a dna test, there will be that chance of it not being him...that is if there was even a body to begin with, so if they couldn't identify him just by looking at him then theres also a good chance that the guys who dumped the body had no clue at all who they were dumping, technically they're not lying they are just going by what they were told.
Foxlike Mulder wrote:As for how this country should end the matter of Osama's death, I don't think a public spectacle would help our reputation around the world. How would parading OBL's body be any different than the pictures of Jihad militants hoisting a downed fighter pilot around the local mountain town?
Pons Asinorum wrote:He murdered thousands upon thousands of people. He caused wars, perverted a religion, and justified evil. He was human, but not a human being by any definition that matters.
To the rainmakers, shooters, and finders -- Thank You for taking the trash out. ♠
New Scientist, 05/03/11, by Ferris Jabr who wrote:
[OBL]... was identified by comparison to photographs, confirmation from one of his wives at the compound, facial-recognition software...DNA...
John Brennan, Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, said the DNA evidence provided a match with "99.9 per cent confidence". That would require the comparison of DNA from the body with that of people known to be related to bin Laden. Bin Laden had no full siblings, but more than 50 half-siblings and up to 24 children.
Using DNA from many half-siblings could produce a DNA match of greater than 90 per cent confidence, but it would be difficult to get as high as 99.9 per cent without a closer relative says Rhonda Roby, a forensic geneticist at the University of North Texas Health Science Center, Fort Worth.
Randyrrr wrote:I wouldn't believe it.
I am from the show me group.
Why dump the body?
All of those ships have freezers on them.
Something smells fishy to me....
Why not display this body to the press.
Remember some of the so called hijackers have been found still alive and hiding from the CIA.
Theory wrote:No offence Max, but since when do we show respect to mass murderers? and when did mass murderers deserve any kind of respect? If we found Hitlers body what do you suppose would be done with it? Would they be respectful?
It is called respect what we did. A civilized nation does not parade the bodies of those it takes out no matter how evil they are. The Muslim tradition is to bury the body within 24 hours and we did so. There were cameras on the attack force who took him out and they recorded the entire thing as it happened. They also have pictures of the body and other evidence proving it was him.
Also, they found many computer discs and other items that will be very helpful in capturing other terrorists and stopping plots.
This is how it should of been done from the beginning: Use special forces to take out the bad guys and not start two wars that eventually will cost trillions of dollars.
I also think our Special Ops troops did an outstanding job, and President Obama gave the OK to a very tricky assignment. Had this gone wrong, it would of played out very differently.
Shaun_Omega wrote:Wow, seems like the videos I posted were completely ignored, oh well.
Pons Asinorum wrote:Theory wrote:He doesn't have any full blooded sibilings, but he does have a crap load of half sibilings. From what I read in the artical below, they do not know for a fact that this was osama, it very well could've been a relative of his. Until, they can get his mother to do a dna test, there will be that chance of it not being him...that is if there was even a body to begin with, so if they couldn't identify him just by looking at him then theres also a good chance that the guys who dumped the body had no clue at all who they were dumping, technically they're not lying they are just going by what they were told.
Still would put my money on an operator being able to visually identify the target properly (happens all the time and Team Six is, well... this is what they do, exclusively).
Nevertheless, the DNA question is a good one. If they have a sample from only one half-sibling, then statistically, they could only be certain to a 90% probability -- no more. However, if they have samples from two or more half-siblings, then that certainty can be increased (to get to 99.9% or greater, I think they need more than two -- will research that).
The New York Times states that (unnamed) government officials claim a 99.9% DNA match confirming OBL's identity.
So, yeah, great question -- who's DNA did they use (and if it is not one of the parents, then they better have more than two half-siblings as an answer).
--Foxlike Mulder wrote:As for how this country should end the matter of Osama's death, I don't think a public spectacle would help our reputation around the world. How would parading OBL's body be any different than the pictures of Jihad militants hoisting a downed fighter pilot around the local mountain town?
Your first point is an excellent one and our leaders probably came to the same conclusion. I still disagree because (a) I'm that kind of guy (call it a character flaw) and (b) the language of the blood feud is the language of our enemy -- it is the only viable means of communication we will ever have with them IMHO.
To your question (and IMHO a fair question), there is not parity between an officer in the uniform of his country carrying out lawful orders in an effort to kill only military targets as a matter of law and policy, versus a terrorist who murders for ideology and is deliberately trying to unlawfully kill unarmed men, women and children -- and who disavow any and all conventions of warfare.
In short, one is a human being -- worthy of dignity and respect -- and the other is not. At least, that is how I see it.
ilacewords wrote: Minor detail, but speaking of details...(hold onto your hats!) they are changing....
Four bin Laden details the administration got wrong
mahalla2 wrote:ilacewords wrote: Minor detail, but speaking of details...(hold onto your hats!) they are changing....
Four bin Laden details the administration got wrong
hmmm, maybe not so minor -
okay, so it seems we have 1) still no body, 2) ambiguous photos of where this happened, 3) changes in the story of what happened, and 4) as far as I can tell, still no credible witness of anyone who was actually there when it happened - So would a real police department anywhere consider any of this as evidence? Yet, we are all suppose to soak it up like petunia's in the sun -
Top US government insider Dr. Steve R. Pieczenik, a man who held numerous different influential positions under three different Presidents and still works with the Defense Department, shockingly told The Alex Jones Show yesterday that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001 and that he was prepared to testify in front of a grand jury how a top general told him directly that 9/11 was a false flag inside job.
Pieczenik cannot be dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist”. He served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under three different administrations, Nixon, Ford and Carter, while also working under Reagan and Bush senior, and still works as a consultant for the Department of Defense. A former US Navy Captain, Pieczenik achieved two prestigious Harry C. Solomon Awards at the Harvard Medical School as he simultaneously completed a PhD at MIT.
Recruited by Lawrence Eagleburger as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Management, Pieczenik went on to develop, “the basic tenets for psychological warfare, counter terrorism, strategy and tactics for transcultural negotiations for the US State Department, military and intelligence communities and other agencies of the US Government,” while also developing foundational strategies for hostage rescue that were later employed around the world.
Pieczenik also served as a senior policy planner under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Cyrus Vance, George Schultz and James Baker and worked on George W. Bush’s election campaign against Al Gore. His record underscores the fact that he is one of the most deeply connected men in intelligence circles over the past three decades plus.
The character of Jack Ryan, who appears in many Tom Clancy novels and was also played by Harrison Ford in the popular 1992 movie Patriot Games, is also based on Steve Pieczenik.
Back in April 2002, over nine years ago, Pieczenik told the Alex Jones Show that Bin Laden had already been “dead for months,” and that the government was waiting for the most politically expedient time to roll out his corpse. Pieczenik would be in a position to know, having personally met Bin Laden and worked with him during the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan back in the early 80′s.
Pieczenik said that Osama Bin Laden died in 2001, “Not because special forces had killed him, but because as a physician I had known that the CIA physicians had treated him and it was on the intelligence roster that he had marfan syndrome,” adding that the US government knew Bin Laden was dead before they invaded Afghanistan.
Marfan syndrome is a degenerative genetic disease for which there is no permanent cure. The illness severely shortens the life span of the sufferer.
“He died of marfan syndrome, Bush junior knew about it, the intelligence community knew about it,” said Pieczenik, noting how CIA physicians had visited Bin Laden in July 2001 at the American Hospital in Dubai.
“He was already very sick from marfan syndrome and he was already dying, so nobody had to kill him,” added Pieczenik, stating that Bin Laden died shortly after 9/11 in his Tora Bora cave complex.
“Did the intelligence community or the CIA doctor up this situation, the answer is yes, categorically yes,” said Pieczenik, referring to Sunday’s claim that Bin Laden was killed at his compound in Pakistan, adding, “This whole scenario where you see a bunch of people sitting there looking at a screen and they look as if they’re intense, that’s nonsense,” referring to the images released by the White House which claim to show Biden, Obama and Hillary Clinton watching the operation to kill Bin Laden live on a television screen.
“It’s a total make-up, make believe, we’re in an American theater of the absurd….why are we doing this again….nine years ago this man was already dead….why does the government repeatedly have to lie to the American people,” asked Pieczenik.
“Osama Bin Laden was totally dead, so there’s no way they could have attacked or confronted or killed Osama Bin laden,” said Pieczenik, joking that the only way it could have happened was if special forces had attacked a mortuary.
Pieczenik said that the decision to launch the hoax now was made because Obama had reached a low with plummeting approval ratings and the fact that the birther issue was blowing up in his face.
“He had to prove that he was more than American….he had to be aggressive,” said Pieczenik, adding that the farce was also a way of isolating Pakistan as a retaliation for intense opposition to the Predator drone program, which has killed hundreds of Pakistanis.
“This is orchestrated, I mean when you have people sitting around and watching a sitcom, basically the operations center of the White House, and you have a president coming out almost zombie-like telling you they just killed Osama Bin Laden who was already dead nine years ago,” said Pieczenik, calling the episode, “the greatest falsehood I’ve ever heard, I mean it was absurd.”
Dismissing the government’s account of the assassination of Bin Laden as a “sick joke” on the American people, Pieczenik said, “They are so desperate to make Obama viable, to negate the fact that he may not have been born here, any questions about his background, any irregularities about his background, to make him look assertive….to re-elect this president so the American public can be duped once again.”
Pieczenik’s assertion that Bin Laden died almost ten years ago is echoed by numerous intelligence professionals as well as heads of state across the world.
Bin Laden, “Was used in the same way that 9/11 was used to mobilize the emotions and feelings of the American people in order to go to a war that had to be justified through a narrative that Bush junior created and Cheney created about the world of terrorism,” stated Pieczenik.
During his interview with the Alex Jones Show yesterday, Pieczenik also asserted he was directly told by a prominent general that 9/11 was a stand down and a false flag operation, and that he is prepared to go to a grand jury to reveal the general’s name.
“They ran the attacks,” said Pieczenik, naming Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Stephen Hadley, Elliott Abrams, and Condoleezza Rice amongst others as having been directly involved.
“It was called a stand down, a false flag operation in order to mobilize the American public under false pretenses….it was told to me even by the general on the staff of Wolfowitz – I will go in front of a federal committee and swear on perjury who the name was of the individual so that we can break it open,” said Pieczenik, adding that he was “furious” and “knew it had happened”.
“I taught stand down and false flag operations at the national war college, I’ve taught it with all my operatives so I knew exactly what was done to the American public,” he added.
Pieczenik re-iterated that he was perfectly willing to reveal the name of the general who told him 9/11 was an inside job in a federal court, “so that we can unravel this thing legally, not with the stupid 9/11 Commission that was absurd.”
Pieczenik explained that he was not a liberal, a conservative or a tea party member, merely an American who is deeply concerned about the direction in which his country is heading.
Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.
ilacewords wrote:Obama continued, "Imagine how the American people would react if al-Qaida killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet."
"Osama bin Laden is not a trophy -- he is dead and let's now focus on continuing the fight until al-Qaida has been eliminated." "
[Actually saw this on TMZ (lol, I know....) referencing 60 minutes.]
My thoughts...why would he assume people would think the photos are shopped? There's a way to prove or not prove that assumption...BUT! I do get what he says about reprecussions. Yes, we would be pissed about them posting pictures of our dead soldiers. Wait a minute, they have posted pics of our dead soldiers & hostages as they chopped their heads off...
oh well.. /sigh
Daily Caller, 05/04/11, by Jim Treacher who wrote:
It’s been less than 72 hours since President Barack Obama announced that U.S. Special Forces had killed Osama Bin Laden. Since then, his administration has been hard at work screwing the whole thing up.
Daily Caller, 05/04/11, by Amanda Carey who wrote:
In the days following the death of Osama bin Laden, the White House’s narrative on the basic facts of the missions evolved and along with it, the news reports. Three days after President Obama confirmed that U.S. forces killed the al-Qaeda leader, there have been numerous accounts and inconsistencies. Below are some of the most glaring.
greekben wrote:A Muslim killing another Muslim just seems odd to me?
Popular Mechanics, Osama bin Laden's DNA: How Sure Is 99.9 Percent Sure?, 05/03/11, by Sharon Weinberger who wrote:
The process of extracting and purifying the DNA can be done in as little as a half-hour; then experts require a few hours to amplify, analyze and match it. The biggest piece of equipment needed is a genetic analyzer, a desk-size apparatus that weighs a couple hundred pounds (which could well explain why bin Laden's body had to be transported back to Afghanistan for identification).
But Krane [Dan Krane, a professor of genetics and a DNA expert at Wright State University in Ohio] and others—such as William Thompson, a criminology professor at the University of California, Irvine, and an expert in DNA forensics—say that the 99.9 percent confidence number, which the U.S. government reportedly arrived at by comparing the DNA to that of bin Laden's half-sister, is slightly misleading. The key distinction, Thompson says, is that the results speak to the probability of a relationship between the two people, not the actual identity of the dead man.
One complicating factor in identifying bin Laden is that he has no full siblings. "In the case of half-siblings, it is harder to state that there is a match because all one can do is state that it is likely the two people shared a common ancestor (you would not be able to say they are half-brother and -sister any more than you could say they are cousins)," Steven Laken, the CEO of DNA analysis firm Cephos, writes in an email to PM. "In the case of the bin Ladens, there may have been consanguineous marriages (marriages between related people), and this makes it trickier."
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