AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Post your ideas and thoughts about the Ancient Mysteries field, whatever is on your mind, and discuss it with like-minded people from all around the world interested in Forbidden Archaeology. This your board to discuss anything that "officially" should not exist - but does! No profanity, racist language, and no baseless attacks. This counts for ALL boards.

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AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Stormcrow » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:01 am

This board has seen a few skeptics cruising through. If they are nice about it, nobody seems to mind because we all think for ourselves...healthy skepticism is reasonable, right?
However, we have also had those who insist on belittling and insulting the integrity of believers in general and usually specific members of this forum. Those folks won't last long.
Even believers who have to assert their "superior" knowledge of the subject as if it is the only way to look at things will find not-so-much welcome here. Its OK to be a KIA here as long as you are respectful about it.

The key to getting along here is to state your position in a way that doesn't project a personal attack, then do not be offended if and when it isn't understood, or is ignored.

So I guess the Scientific Establishment has worse problems than we do. Nearly all of the respected vocations have difficulty with the Ancient Astronaut Theory (as expected), but they also have difficulty with other researchers in their own fields and apparently treat them with the same amount of derision that they heap on AAT. Here is a recent example:

Enter the world of ancient Egyptian DNA and you are asked to choose between two alternate realities: one in which DNA analysis is routine, and the other in which it is impossible. "The ancient-DNA field is split absolutely in half," says Tom Gilbert, who heads two research groups at the Center for GeoGenetics in Copenhagen, one of the world's foremost ancient-DNA labs.

“I don't understand people's harshness. This is pioneering work.”

Unable to resolve their differences, the two sides publish in different journals, attend different conferences and refer to each other as 'believers' and 'sceptics' — when, that is, they're not simply ignoring each other. The Tutankhamun study reignited long-standing tensions between the two camps, with sceptics claiming that in this study, as in most others, the results can be explained by contamination. Next-generation sequencing techniques, however, may soon be able to resolve the split once and for all by making it easier to sequence ancient, degraded DNA. But for now, Zink says, "It's like a religious thing. If our papers are reviewed by one of the other groups, you get revisions like 'I don't believe it's possible'. It's hard to argue with that."


http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110427/ ... 2404a.html (for the whole article)

Now I am not claiming that we as interested followers of AAT are in any way "Researchers", or are on any kind of par with the scientists that are studying Egyptian DNA or finding Extrasolar Planets or curing Cancer. But maybe if more established researchers are having the same kinds of problems "getting along" then maybe we all should just "chill out" about the whole thing. The AAT is pioneering work too.

I have always suggested that we should always try never to offend nor get defensive about others assertions when we post here, because this trait in humans is what keeps us from progressing.
That is why I have asked the moderators to be fairly strict about fairplay here. You as a forum member may have a great point, maybe even a burning skepticism, but if you cannot make it nicely and respectfully, then it might be better if you keep it to yourself, or you may be warned publicly or banned from posting on the board.


Also, If you need to whine a little, thats OK. Just if it gets out of hand, expect cheese as a response...we're not children.

Since I am here discussing this, please let me also point out that this forum is provided for Legendary Times A.A.S.R.A. Members to discuss AAT topics. Off-topic threads should be kept to the off-topic sections of the board provided and those forum members that are not subscribers of Legendary Times, should seriously consider subscribing; because that support is what provides this forum in the first place.

This post is not intended to change or add rules. I hope to make the point that we all have something to say here and the only censoring done here is not of ideas, but of attitudes.
I also want to publicly thank our moderators. They have all done pretty good trying to follow my cryptic suggestions.

Lets all keep trying to "Crack the Code".
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Moon » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:46 pm

Excellent post, Jeff! I think we all need to step back and look at ourselves in the mirror. Most of us here are very opinionated (myself included) and we need to realize there are many differing views and theories out there.

I will keep this in mind every time I post something.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Stormcrow » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:23 pm

life is too short to argue with people I have never met and yeah, I am sure that there are some of my posts here that make me sound like a pompous ass so it felt good to take a stand. Hope everyone can get along here cause thats one way I measure the success of this board.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Ace Rimmer » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:16 pm

Great post Jeff. Thank you for taking the bull by the horns. It is a periodic problem, attitude is everything in my book, we are just here to share, learn and have fun. Not defend ourselves constantly. It gets really old after awhile.

Varied opinions and ideas and beliefs are what make the forum and the members interesting.
It’s what makes life interesting.
There is a big difference between a person who comes on here and is a skeptic and wants to learn some different aspects of the ATT, which itself is varied, and a person who just wants to blatantly condemned any and everything. Or ridicule people because they think we are gullible nutters.

A sign of success is harmony. Present your ideas, theories and ideologies for what they are, opinions and personal beliefs, unless there is concrete, irrefutable proof, that is all they are. Nobody can argue with an opinion, just because somebody else has a different opinion doesn't make it right or wrong, their's or the other persons.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Stormcrow » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:26 pm

Yeah, it is nice to have such a current example of the Archaeological community being divided, that sounds just exactly how AAT proponents get dissed.
Things are better than I thought it was.

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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Pons Asinorum » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:52 pm

I like your post too Jeff.

Science cannot ever know the Truth, because science is a self-corrective system by definition. At best, it is a Search for truths, and human nature being what it is -- such results will be perpetually debated. In absolute terms, we may never really know the Truth (in logic, it is said that truths can be known through inductive and deductive means, but this implies a belief in the accuracy of our senses and in the abilities of our collective mind).

Science is always fractured as different ideas and theories compete for evidence and verification. Only in few instances is there a relative consensus -- but even then, such instances can be destabilized by a new piece of evidence or a new discovery (that is currently happening in physics and it may be huge).

That is why I have always held the view that an attack against science (via the characteristic "they") is disingenuous. It is fractured, especially in archeology.

Some scientists in the "hard sciences" do not even consider archeology a science -- and you think AAT has it hard, try earning your PhD, conducting research in the field for a decade, carefully crafting a theory that matches all the evidence and then being told you are not a "real" scientist ;-).

It is a dog eat, dog world, and for science, that is par for the course.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Jimmy7070 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:20 pm

Well put Jeff. As a moderator on another forum it took quite awhile to bring some of the guys around to their senses but for those who did not want to bend some, they were given the Heave Ho, did not take long and we had a nice running forum. I see some get kind of testy here but hopefully they will read this and straighten up some, if not good bye....
Jimmy
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby James.HG » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:09 pm

Excellent post! Thank you!
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Bob137 » Sun May 01, 2011 8:24 pm

Great Post Jeff. I agree, I too have gotten a little peeved at some of those hardliners, when they belittle others, (I just dislike bullies, always have), I know i am not to strike back at them, and will do better, and remember this post from now on. Thanks for putting this out.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Majeston » Sun May 01, 2011 9:42 pm

Thanks Jeff,
Nice post.
Let,s also keep our eyes open for double standards, i,ve noticed several instances.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby cavemanstyle » Mon May 02, 2011 7:32 am

In every case of opinion or theory I say.... "Prove it", or it just that, and opinion and healthy debate occurs. I think sometimes that people's beliefs overpower their logic. Believing itself is a function of emotion, and we all know that logic and emotion do not mix very well, and some are hard pressed to tell the difference between the two. However, in a universe as big as this.. I say anything is possible.. just show me the facts.

-CM
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Pons Asinorum » Mon May 02, 2011 7:32 pm

cavemanstyle wrote:In every case of opinion or theory I say.... "Prove it", or it just that, and opinion and healthy debate occurs. I think sometimes that people's beliefs overpower their logic. Believing itself is a function of emotion, and we all know that logic and emotion do not mix very well, and some are hard pressed to tell the difference between the two. However, in a universe as big as this.. I say anything is possible.. just show me the facts.

-CM


Nicely said, CM!
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Another example

Postby Stormcrow » Wed May 04, 2011 9:10 am

After 1982, when evidence for cosmic life and panspermia acquired a status close to irrefutable, publication avenues that were hitherto readily available became suddenly closed. With the unexpected discovery that comets had an organic composition, with comet dust possessing infrared spectra consistent with biomaterial (Hoover et al, 1986; Hoyle and Wickramasinghe, 1986a,b) attitudes hardened to a point that panspermia and related issues were decreed taboo by all respectable journals and institutions. The peer review system that was operated served not only to exclude poor quality research but also to deliberately filter publication of any work that challenged the standard theory of life’s origins.

Even though the general public revelled in ideas of extraterrestrial life, science was expected to shun this subject no matter how strong the evidence, albeit through a conspiracy of silence. It was an unwritten doctrine of science that extraterrestrial life could not exist in our immediate vicinity, or, that if such life did exist, it could not have a connection with Earth.


Read it for yourself...http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.1314
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Polaris » Fri May 06, 2011 8:45 am

Wow, three cheers for N. Chandra Wickramasinghe, et al for holding to his principles of scientific investigation:

"Since Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen, 965–1039), one of the key figures in the development of scientific method, the emphasis has been on seeking truth: Truth is sought for its own sake. And those who are engaged upon the quest for anything for its own sake are not interested in other things. Finding the truth is difficult, and the road to it is rough."

This is what I learned in the various science classes in school :
"Define the question
Gather information and resources (observe)
Form hypothesis
Perform experiment and collect data
Analyze data
Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
Publish results
Retest (frequently done by other scientists)"

I copied the above excerpts from Wikipedia.

The personal attacks, silent treatment and withholding of funding, smells the same as how the catholic church held its opponents at bay for centuries. History is littered with their limbs and corpses...

It seems vestiages of the 'Dark Ages' exist even today and have infiltrated the halls of education, governments (USA, GB) and their agencies (NASA)!!!! Thankfully the death penalty is no longer an option for 'them'.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby amyrigg » Tue May 10, 2011 6:59 am

what is truth and absolute to me, may not be to you - right on, let's all just play nice and not get all judgmental. it's hard sometimes not to be judgmental cuz we are such dagum judgeful HUMANS hee hee. THANKS JEFF SHEETS, and i'll throw in the sticky gooey peace and love here to spread all throughout this thread ;)
mitakuye oyasin - we are all related
and most of us here are just trying to find out some basic truth that surely wasn't taught to me at least in U.S. public schools in the '60s and '70s :mrgreen:
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Ace Rimmer » Tue May 10, 2011 3:32 pm

You betcha Amy..

Peace and love... :D
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Moon » Tue May 10, 2011 5:29 pm

amyrigg wrote:what is truth and absolute to me, may not be to you - right on, let's all just play nice and not get all judgmental. it's hard sometimes not to be judgmental cuz we are such dagum judgeful HUMANS hee hee. THANKS JEFF SHEETS, and i'll throw in the sticky gooey peace and love here to spread all throughout this thread ;)
mitakuye oyasin - we are all related
and most of us here are just trying to find out some basic truth that surely wasn't taught to me at least in U.S. public schools in the '60s and '70s :mrgreen:


I do think this site has gotten much nicer now with a few bad apples who left us. I do agree with you Amy that we should all respect each others opinions, no matter how far out they are. If one wants to make brownies, you must add in a few nuts. :mrgreen:
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Inquiring Mind » Tue May 10, 2011 5:32 pm

Today’s mighty oak is just yesterday’s nut that held its ground. :mrgreen:
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Moon » Tue May 10, 2011 6:14 pm

Inquiring Mind wrote:Today’s mighty oak is just yesterday’s nut that held its ground. :mrgreen:


I think nuts are a good thing, otherwise my family would of sent me to the Crackerbox Palace a long time ago!
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Nikola » Sun May 22, 2011 2:02 am

Great! Thanks!

And may I disagree with that part: "Now I am not claiming that we as interested followers of AAT are in any way "Researchers"..."?

I've always been looking at the scientists as the people who are always in motion, always striving to learn something new. No matter how many old theories go down the toilet - what matters is the truth and nothing else. Aren't AAT people fit that description perfectly?! What is a researcher if not a person who dares to question everything in order to get to the truth! Keeping theories as old as the pyramids as the only valid ones at any costs is just an academic form of bureaucracy. I think that AAT people are part of the researching process, not just another fan club or hobby; an opening mind force that could get people far beyond the limitations of the archaic way of thinking. AAT people are not afraid to go wrong, if it's serves the truth. That's what I call researching. And who knows - maybe some day it will all go official.

P.S.How many followers of the mainstream science know that The Sphynx represents a female queen? ;-)

Thanks again and sorry for the little disagreement!
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby amyrigg » Sun May 22, 2011 3:50 am

Thank you Nikola. We may not all be university-paid research scientists, but Einstein was a patent clerk - the questioning wondering mind is in every human body - whether we choose to utilize that part of our mind is our own business ... I think i'm pretty highly edu-ma-cated & I've only been thru a couple yrs of partial college - i'm self taught, like abraham lincoln - thank goodness for the internet, it makes research a bit easier, although one must remember not to believe everything seen, heard, and read on the computer - just like in real life - i LOVE LT website & all y'all's thoughts - it helps me think even more. THANK YOU ALL :mrgreen:
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Bob137 » Sun May 22, 2011 9:45 am

I agree with you both, Nikola and Amy! I also if mainly self taught. I even have a shirts, and a hoodie with my last name used as a University on it. I have been to a university, but it was so stubborn when it came to actually utilizing new research findings, (in other words they would not be considered at all for any reason), I decided it was better just to keep on doing my own research, which I have done. One thing I have noticed on this web site, the majority of people have an open mind, which is what is needed.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby amyrigg » Mon May 23, 2011 5:32 am

i LOVE to research stuff online - i don't get to the library as much as I used to, but i'd just be using the library's computer - online is EXCELLENT to research stuff, i just try to remember to check something 4 or 10+ times b4 I refer to it as a fact - & even then, everything is always changing, what may be "fact" right now, might not be 10 yrs or even 5 minutes from now ... yeah it's the open mind thing around here that is SO groovy - everyone is pretty compassionate and kind too - they've been most tolerant of my babbling blathering
THANKS Y'ALL :wink:
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby dr fate » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:46 pm

Thanks! I'm somewhat of a skeptic myself, but I'm more interested in learning new viewpoints than trying to shoot them down. You won't have to worry about me disrupting, etc. I am extremely open minded to the idea of lost history, alternative history, lost knowledge, etc.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Cartomancer » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:25 am

Thanks Jeff. I have been relentlessly trolled since almost the first day I started to post about my research (I was not trolled here though!). I like Legendary Times for this reason. You are right there is a respectful way to reply every time. The internet is a cold forum and many people feel as if they can behave differently here than in person. :D
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby seeker1117 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:09 pm

This very thing is the reason I have shied away from posting on the History Channel forum for the show! There are people on there who are quite shrill and always seem to have some belittling thing to say to anyone who voices a positive thought. One fellow touts his "thinking outside the box" while simultaneously saying everything expressed is "pseudo-blahblahblah" Quite sickening to try and wade through, and they seem to make it their business to jump on ANYONE who posts a positive comment...you'd think History Channel might be more supportive of what has obviously turned out to be one of their most popular shows ever.

So I offer many thanks to you folks for providing a bit of a "safe haven" here for people to discuss what they feel and believe about this subject, and the far-reaching implications of allowing for the possibility that these ideas have some truth to them.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Bob137 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:26 pm

I read their posts also on debunking, and replied back, with they need to do their homework, and actually research what they say is pseudo science, of which if they actually did do their homework, and researched with a scientific open mind, which science is supposed to be based on research with an open mind, then they would find that history as being taught in the schools and universities is not at all the same as what actually is the facts, and that the dogmatic historians, anthropologists, and archeologists, have actually ignored facts, thrown out artifacts, made the facts to fit their theories, and brainwashed people into only believing what they say, and not having an open mind, and learning what the facts actually are. So if ignorance is bliss, then they must be in bliss, because they ahve not learned much in the way of researching with an open mind.
I am sure my statements there are really upsetting to the majority of them, but I am just stating that through actual research for over 40 years of our inaccurate history, I believe I have done a lot of my homework, and with an open mind, and have concluded that our history is not what is taught, or what it seemed to be that was put out by the so called experts.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Stormcrow » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:47 pm

seeker1117 wrote:This very thing is the reason I have shied away from posting on the History Channel forum for the show! There are people on there who are quite shrill and always seem to have some belittling thing to say to anyone who voices a positive thought. One fellow touts his "thinking outside the box" while simultaneously saying everything expressed is "pseudo-blahblahblah" Quite sickening to try and wade through, and they seem to make it their business to jump on ANYONE who posts a positive comment...you'd think History Channel might be more supportive of what has obviously turned out to be one of their most popular shows ever.

So I offer many thanks to you folks for providing a bit of a "safe haven" here for people to discuss what they feel and believe about this subject, and the far-reaching implications of allowing for the possibility that these ideas have some truth to them.


Glad to read this. I think that if there had been no way to hold back the trolls, I would not be bothering to post here myself. We still get a little of that stuff, but eventually they shape up or ship out...
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby amyrigg » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:56 pm

ha ha trolls ... one of these days i'm gona try and research into why internet people call other people trolls - are they short and creepy and liver under bridges ? or do the fish slowly off the end of the boat ???
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Moon » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:15 pm

I do understand why no one who espouses these views or is interested in them would want to post anywhere else. It is OK to have skeptics as long as they actually add to the debate or keep an open mind.

I am one who is skeptical of many things, but I do keep an open mind. I also ask the questions so people understand why I am skeptical. I do not think just typing in that an idea is wrong will help find out any truth.

Right now I am in a small debate about Zecharia Sitchin and the outer planets (Sedna, Eris etc). While I have read most of Mr Sitchin's work, I do disagree with many of his theories and I put up the reasons and questions as to why I do.

Calling people names tells more about the poster than they think.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Stormcrow » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:27 pm

maxmercury wrote:Right now I am in a small debate about Zecharia Sitchin and the outer planets (Sedna, Eris etc). While I have read most of Mr Sitchin's work, I do disagree with many of his theories and I put up the reasons and questions as to why I do.


Whats the link? I would like to read it. Yes, if we want to disagree, That is OK. Just explain it some (and be nice about it).

So if perhaps one of those planetoids is Nibiru. Then where is the 32000 year cycle? Also, how could a planet have enough heat energy to sustain (earthlike?) life while travelling out to the apogee of its orbit? Half of its cycle would be very cold and thereby killing its life every cycle. Nibiru would have to be a rocky planet with a mass much larger than Earth's to hold heat for any length of time, let alone long enough to last until the next cycle starts. My suggestion is that IF ZS theories are right about Nibiru, it has to be farther outside of the known solar system than than those outer planets. Say a landlocked planet of a nearby brown dwarf sun? Necessarily something we have not yet discovered though because Alpha Cenauri is the "closest" star to us.

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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Bob137 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:41 pm

Actually there is some evidence coming out in Astronomy of a Red Dwarf Star possibly in an elliptical orbit around our sun, that may hold planets with moons, if so, that could be the source, and Nibiru could be one of the planets circling the Red Dwarf, or one of the planets moons could be Nibiru, I guess until further analysis of the data coming in, we shall just have to wait and see! This is not a definite, but the Astronomers supposedly have found something, and that is what it may be, but whether it will come near our Solar System anytime soon, is another question. Another possiblity is that our Solar System is actually a Binary Star System, and the Red Dwarf is the Sun's sister star?
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Nikola » Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:50 pm

Bob137 wrote:Actually there is some evidence coming out in Astronomy of a Red Dwarf Star possibly in an elliptical orbit around our sun, that may hold planets with moons, if so, that could be the source, and Nibiru could be one of the planets circling the Red Dwarf, or one of the planets moons could be Nibiru, I guess until further analysis of the data coming in, we shall just have to wait and see! This is not a definite, but the Astronomers supposedly have found something, and that is what it may be, but whether it will come near our Solar System anytime soon, is another question. Another possiblity is that our Solar System is actually a Binary Star System, and the Red Dwarf is the Sun's sister star?


As long as I know, in binary star systems the bigger star is more evolved/old and is soon to become a red giant. So Sirius fits perfectly. No wonder why all the obsession with it in ancient Khemet/Egypt. And in Hopi's prophecy - the story tells of a blue dwarf and a red purifier.
Who knows...
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby Moon » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:01 pm

Jeff, here is the link to the debate going on:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2895&start=35

I have been stating that it is possible for them to have come from the red dwarf that is part of the Sirius system (Sirius C). Sirius has both a white dwarf and a red dwarf, and the Dogon tribe show the third star being orbited by the planet the Nommo come from. Red dwarfs are now being looked at as serious contenders to support life baring planets and the fairly recent discovery of one in that system should make the AAT people quite happy at the prospects of finding proof of the theories of ancient visitation.

The possibility that our own Sun has a small star as a companion is getting some serious attention, but so far it has not been proven yet. A red dwarf would probably be bright enough to be spotted by the naked eye, and easily spotted by a telescope. While the binary star systems are more common than a lone star system, it would mean our Sun is more likely to have a companion star.
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Re: AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

Postby isitmeorwhat? » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:46 pm

Well we will always have skeptics no matter what topics are discussed. From Ancient astronaut theory to even what is shown on the nightly news. Let's face it if 1000 people shook hands with a renouned world leader or entertainment star. One would say that he or she was an imposter. Hey I know where there are lots of skeptics lately! Why it's our congressman ans senators in Washington they are the same way. They can't agree on any of each others views. They will say something is red when it is green even they know it is green just because they want everything their way. No matter if it's right or wrong. Yep Washington is run by a bunch of skeptics anymore and it is hurting everyone. :(
isitmeorwhat?
 
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