Psychic, Channeling and Other Abilities

[Moon]

There are some on this site who do claim to have psychic and other paranormal abilities. This thread is about why I am skeptical of people who claim such abilities even though I do think they exist.

First, let me explain why I do think these abilities are real. I read a book* about psychic Wolf Messing which was very well researched about his abilities during the Soviet Era of Joseph Stalin. Now, Mr Stalin was a man you did not mess with and try to fool as he had millions of people killed, moved to Siberia or other prison camps. Woe be the person who crossed Mr Stalin. Not only did Mr Messing convince Stalin of his abilities, but he did so to many other dignitaries around the world such as Ghandi.

There is also Nostradamus who made many predictions using the art of astrology. Dr John Dee also used astrology to help Queen Elizabeth I bring England to a world power.

The main reason I am soured on people who make such claims is because of the frauds out there who did so at the expense of people's pocketbooks or even worse their emotions. There is a spoon bender who made his fame and fortune in the 1970s and fooled many people. He was shown to be a fake on a late night talk show and there are many videos out there showing him at work. There is also a famous psychic who claimed to help ailing people and never collected a dime. What they forget to tell you is he threw the kitchen sink of ailments at them while his wife collected the fees. As far as his predictions go, it is 2011 and California is still not under water (supposed to of happened in the late 1960s).

There are others who have taken advantage of people, including a TV personality who claimed to speak to dead people. What the TV audience didn't see was his fishing the studio audience for names.

There are many here who know who the above are and will state they are the real deal and that is fine for them. But I have done much research and they join the ranks of the people who give anyone psychic a bad name. Again, these people make up a small percentage but they ruined it for anyone who has any real abilities.

For those who claim to have abilities, I do think there needs to be some type of personal test they cannot guess. There are those who can look at a person and tell much about their lives without even opening their mouths. Your marriage/dating status, emotional well being and many other clues are there to be read. Add the leading questions and that person becomes one of the best psychics ever. I do have a personal test that will prove to me whether anyone is a psychic and I do think people should have one to suit their needs. It should be something that no one can guess or can find out before meeting you. If they pass the test, they are the real deal.

Is this fair to those of you who do have an ability? No. Is life fair? Again, no. But this is a touchy subject which does need to be addressed.

I also throw channeling, telepaths and other abilities in the same boat as I don't deny those either but need them to pass a test also.

Please feel free to put in your opinions, disagreements etc for this discussion.

*Wolf Messing: The True Story of Russia's Greatest Psychic by Tatiana Lungin

[Sunrisepony]

I agree, there are way to many out there that are giving the genuine ones a bad name. And, as for test I think they're a good form of indication but I wouldn't even say they're 100% reliable either. Until science (at least on a mainstream level?) is able to catch up with the Psi abilities, and mainstream science and other important fields are ready to admit the existence. I think one of my favorite past times is pointing out the "charlatans" or "cold readers" they just rub me the wrong way, ugh. I've even pointed out a few fake Animal Communicators along the way.

As for TV are you referring to James Randy or was it hmm John Edwards? There's a cold reader with some talent if I ever saw one. And James Randy was just recently arrested I believe for countless fraud charges.

I think charlatans/fraudulant/fakes aside. One of the biggest issues I've found and I think it's wholly unfair and unreasonable expectation. Is that they demand those with genuine abilities to be 100% accurate, and if they even miss ONE tiny detail or maybe only range around 75% - 95% accuracy they are automatically called fakes. With little to zero understanding of how it really works, 100% accuracy is as I've said before impossible for any earth human to achieve with what is in essence foreign language translation of information that comes in various forms. And, I say that goes for Channelers, readers, Animal Communicators. The whole nine yards of the Psi spectrum.

Every human being here on earth is born with the ability to be psychic, or what I think is more appropriate 'term' of just higher sensitivity range of the senses. It is the environmental conditions in which they are raised that determines wither they develop those higher ranges of the senses or shut them down. There are certain things I think that Influence how strong they are and what part of the spectrum the 'strongest' abilities fall into, but mostly it's environmental influence as to wither they develop in the first place or not.

[Serene]

I agree, there are way to many out there that are giving the genuine ones a bad name. And, as for test I think they're a good form of indication but I wouldn't even say they're 100% reliable either. Until science (at least on a mainstream level?) is able to catch up with the Psi abilities, and mainstream science and other important fields are ready to admit the existence. I think one of my favorite past times is pointing out the "charlatans" or "cold readers" they just rub me the wrong way, ugh. I've even pointed out a few fake Animal Communicators along the way.

As for TV are you referring to James Randy or was it hmm John Edwards? There's a cold reader with some talent if I ever saw one. And James Randy was just recently arrested I believe for countless fraud charges.

I think charlatans/fraudulant/fakes aside. One of the biggest issues I've found and I think it's wholly unfair and unreasonable expectation. Is that they demand those with genuine abilities to be 100% accurate, and if they even miss ONE tiny detail or maybe only range around 75% - 95% accuracy they are automatically called fakes. With little to zero understanding of how it really works, 100% accuracy is as I've said before impossible for any earth human to achieve with what is in essence foreign language translation of information that comes in various forms. And, I say that goes for Channelers, readers, Animal Communicators. The whole nine yards of the Psi spectrum.

Every human being here on earth is born with the ability to be psychic, or what I think is more appropriate 'term' of just higher sensitivity range of the senses. It is the environmental conditions in which they are raised that determines wither they develop those higher ranges of the senses or shut them down. There are certain things I think that Influence how strong they are and what part of the spectrum the 'strongest' abilities fall into, but mostly it's environmental influence as to wither they develop in the first place or not.

Ditto to all of this!
Any young child still is "psychic" and has the ability to see and hear things until it is taught that those are just "imaginary friends" or things and that they do not exist.
Fake animal communicators annoy me the most, because most have an incredible "prey drive", haha.

I once was totally blown away by a lady animal communicator who was doing a pro bono telephone session for one of our office kitties at the shelter where I used to work. All of a sudden she said that Frankie wanted to know what that white powder was that we sprinkled on his food every day. You could have heard a pin fall in the office as we all just speechlessly stared at each other - wondering how on earth she could have known about that!

[Moon]

I also think we are all born with this ability but do not use it as we live in a material world (to borrow from Madonna). It is a shame the psychic hotlines and others have given what could be an amazingly useful ability a bad name.

As for a test, I was meaning a personal one for someone who was interested in using a psychic for whatever reason they needed one. It would have to be very personal to that person and not something that is known by anyone.

The lab tests are OK, but they only seem to attract people interested in the money or reward offered.

[Sunrisepony]

Yeah, personal test are good and I think very important. The Lab ones are unreliable IMO for the most part. I went to a psychic fair once and they had the Riverside Paranormal Society there, and had psychic test. Or games maybe? They were fun. A fake Animal Communicator I came across at a Equestrian Event was nothing more than entertainment. She claimed to be real, and I thought for a laugh I'd let her "talk" to my mare Sunny. The Lady was up for it, but then when I asked Sunny if she wanted to do it. Sunny said "No" and I told the lady all of what Sunny said. She got mighty insulted and wouldn't go near me the rest of the four day weekend event.

I think part of the reason that (other than religious influence) there is such a stigma towards the psi spectrum of abilities is because of the fear associated with it, if you could imagine everyone in the lower echelons of society having built in "lie detectors" and language translation abilities that go beyond the physical as finely developed as those with highly developed abilities that are supported and trained. The world would be a much different place. All the secret societies and politicians / government couldn't just blatantly out right lie, they couldn't manipulate people like they do. They couldn't control mass amounts of people. I think there will come a time when this range of our natural inborn selves are developed as part of normal growing up, and embraced fully. BUT I think the transition will be a bit rough, bumpy and chaotic. And it's the fear that still rules at this time, that needs to be shed for things to fully change.

[Moon]

There are many researchers who do think levitation and other abilities were used in ancient times. Even the stories of how the monuments were built deal with huge stones floating into place.

It is a shame we have not practiced this ability as it would truly benefit humanity at a time when we need it.

[Inquiring Mind]

Good post. Amid the sea of fraudsters and outright charlatans, you will always have a few good notable exceptions who are the real deal. Daniel dunglas Home is one of them--in fact the term 'pyschic' was first coined and used to describe the phenomenal powers of Home. Despite the relentless efforts of scientists of the day (Victorian era) to debunk Home's seemingly miraculous powers which included clairvoyance, levitation, telekinesis, spirit channeling, feats of de-materialization etc..--no one was ever able to thoroughly explain, debunk or expose Home as a fraud. Home's otherworldy powers remain an enigma to this day:

http://gailsparanormalport.tripod.com/ddhome.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Daniel_Dunglas_Home.aspx



combined posts per forum rules-MM

I agree, there are way to many out there that are giving the genuine ones a bad name. And, as for test I think they're a good form of indication but I wouldn't even say they're 100% reliable either. Until science (at least on a mainstream level?) is able to catch up with the Psi abilities, and mainstream science and other important fields are ready to admit the existence. I think one of my favorite past times is pointing out the "charlatans" or "cold readers" they just rub me the wrong way, ugh. I've even pointed out a few fake Animal Communicators along the way.

As for TV are you referring to James Randy or was it hmm John Edwards? There's a cold reader with some talent if I ever saw one. And James Randy was just recently arrested I believe for countless fraud charges.

Randi, himself, has a very questionable background as do many of the founders and past directors of CSICOP who may be intelligence operatives:

Randi's Pederasty

Like many tricksters, some of Randi's antics have caused problems for himself. He was forced to resign from the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP) because his accusations provoked lawsuits against hte Committee. One of the most publicized involved physicist Eldon Byrd, a friend of Uri Geller. On May 10, 1988 Randi made a presentation for the New York Area Skeptics in Manhattan. After his lecture, during the question and answer period, a member of the audience confronted him with a tape recording, which allegedly had Randi speaking in explicit sexual terms with young men (the recording was not played during the public meeting). I was present and watched as pandemonium almost broke out. Randi did not completely regain his composure. He accused Byrd of distributing the tape and went on to claim that Byrd was a child molester and that he was in prison. He made the same assertion in an interview with Twilight Zone Magazine. This was untrue, and in a jury trial he was found guilty of defaming Byrd.

Randi has never been married, but his sex life has received published comment regarding rumors of pederasty, including from a longtime friend James Moseley. Randi threatened lawsuits over them, but he never carried through.

http://canibuscentral.ihiphop.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t44539.html

February 11, 1996, Toronto Star: "What I had hesitated to mention is that the colorful Randi has been involved in a number of lawsuits. Part of the evidence brought against Randi was a tape of his telephone conversations, of explicit sexual content, with teenage boys. Randi has at different times claimed that the tape was a hoax made by his enemies to blackmail him, that he made the tape himself, and that the police asked him to make it. Whichever version is true, it's amazing indeed that such a person could be taken seriously as a scientific adviser in an organization dedicated to denying claims of child sexual abuse."

http://www.isgp.eu/dutroux/FMSF_freaks.htm

Link to original article: http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2009/10/ciamedia-war-against-conspiracy_06.html

[siren13]

I have had numerous experiences and have no desire to defend them here, but I agree with you about genuine tests. There are a few ways to detect the fake & honestly a goodhearted psychic if they can't read you will tell you they can't. I look at it scientifically honestly. I have had experiences and I can still question it all and doubt myself and say to myself "girl you are losing it.".

Of course most of the things that have happened to me I can only judge for myself. I also can't read minds..could come in handy when my boyfriend gets in one of his sulking moods:-)

[Moon]

Inquring Mind, Please don't disparage people's characters here on this forum. While we may not like some people or disagree with what they do, we should rise above these types of attacks. I know you are quoting from another source, but the Administration here has frowned on this behavior before.


It is John Edwards and his so-called abilities to speak to the spirit world I was referring about. He does fish around for names until he comes up with one, and he starts with the most common ones out there. There are so many Mikes, Johns, Marys etc that one is bound to hit. Uri Geller is the one who was on Johnny Carson's show and was not able to do his magic tricks. Also, there is a video of Uri Geller who is doing his magic tricks like any magician would. Colin Wilson thinks Mr Geller is the real deal, but I disagree with him on that one.

I also put the book The First Psychic: The Peculiar Mystery of a Notorious Victorian Wizard by Peter Lamont on my wishlist.

Again, I do think there are people who have abilities out there and it is a few bad ones after a buck who are ruining it for the rest.

[Sunrisepony]

It's John Edward, the guy that had that show "Crossing Over", not James. That's the guy you're referring to right?

Anyway. I know another psychic medium to be genuine is James Van Praagh, he's very good. Like anyone else he makes a few mistakes here and there, but he's real.

[siren13]

This subject matter can be sensative to a great many people that have had unusual experiences. I myself can pull a deck of tarot cards out for a friend, but I do not believe in charging for it either. I have a good friend who is very gifted and is pretty sincere and the real deal. She will not charge me if I ask her questions. She does however charge small sums of money at fairs to strangers. Not everyone agrees with me on that.

To each his own. For me I believe that they have as much right and freedom to charge as the person subcoming to the reading and making up his or her own mind to pay for it.

Max there is a fun remote viewing game you could play sometime with friends. It is cool even with people you do not know very well. You and another person make a list on a peice of paper - something you picture in your mind about that person. First 5 things that come to your mind when seeing this person. We could even all play it on here. Then after making the list compare answers and see if you were right about any of them. It is a good teaching tool for opening up that part of the brain that is Psychic. AGAIN we have talked before on here in other boards that we both agree it is something that we all have as far as ability. It can be fun - just don't take it too personal. Sometimes it is funny.

We did that at one of my Solstice parties and a friend of mine kept seeing me buying bread.. I have NO CLUE about the buying bread.. it was kinda funny.

[Sunrisepony]

I charge people for when I do horse communication. It's not that I'm trying to make profit, or really make significant amount of money, but I think my time is worth something. And, it's only a really small amount. I never charge friends, and I do many for free if they can't afford to pay me. The reading/communication I do is the same wither I get paid or not, but I think accepting money for it, specially at fairs and such is completely fine. We all still need to eat, pay for gas for our vehicles, pay rent etc. And until the change the financial system over where money becomes obsolete, then I will do it 100% of the time for free.

[Moon]

That sounds like fun, Siren13 and I will try that with my family for the holidays.

Sunrise, it is up to the individual as to whether or not to charge any fees. I just question some of the motives of people who do make a living off of psychic abilities. Again, that is me and does not reflect other peoples.

[Sunrisepony]

Sunrise, it is up to the individual as to whether or not to charge any fees. I just question some of the motives of people who do make a living off of psychic abilities. Again, that is me and does not reflect other peoples.

Oh, I totally agree. It's something that should be considered with a grain of salt or some caution. We are not given these abilities to make huge profits, I've always believed myself that it is morally wrong and goes against the codes/laws of the universe to make huge sums of money using our abilities that are given to us with the purpose and intent of helping others. Part of why I have such a huge bone to pick with certain channelers and others that are given technology and knowledge that is meant to be shared with others. But they hold it back in the interest of profits, or presumption of profits. I know there is a time when the monetary and financial systems will become obsolete, I look forward to that time.

Specially when it comes to the charlatans, and cold readers out there that pass themselves off as psychic and then charge such huge sums of money for parlor tricks. It's something that has always rubbed me the wrong way.

[siren13]

In this day and age I think I have seen a lot of people deciding to charge reasons being A.) the energy that they use during the readings both what they get from the person can be tiring physically. That is why you should always protect yourself with a prayer etc. B. they need the $$ period.

In this day and age so many people are in need of it and will charge when before they did not or did not charge a lot.

I myself am sensative and do not enjoy going to psychic fairs too much energy and most feels negative at times. Wears me out. Just walking in to shop for jewlery.

[Sunrisepony]

yes, that's partially why I can't even perceive making any sort of a living with what I do. While I'm very strong with my sensitivities and energy wise, I think I'd have to have been trained and guided from the beginning, I was only trained and guided as a child until my grandmother passed, then I came back into it after I turned 21. It's difficult for me even to go to malls, grocery stores, retail establishments etc sometimes, specially during their super busy periods because of the high amounts of negative energy and just energy in general. I'm still learning though how to use and develop personal shielding.

[cRush]

The issues I have with Psychic abilities is that in order for it to work, that implies that the future must be predetermined, and thus, unavoidable. However, if you were aware that a circumstance was supposed to happen, you would have the power to absolutely prevent it from occurring (depending on the nature of that event happening). For example, if a psychic were to tell you that you were going to die in a car accident, you absolutely have the power to never get into a motor vehicle of any kind for the remainder of your life, thus rendering that psychic fortune inept.

Thus psychic abilities present a paradox.

I do think it is possible, however, to formulate extremely likely scenarios by pulling facts together subconsciously. I've done this many times, and it amazes my friends. I do it almost everyday when driving. It is just very small signs that can tip off something that is about to happen. It's not really being psychic, but hyperobservative. For example, I become aware of someone about to change lanes, come to a stop, turn at a stop sign, fail to stop behind me, etc. before they make any tell-tale signs such as turning on a blinker, slowing down, or merging towards a lane divider. Nonetheless, I think there are tiny signs that my subconscious is picking up on that my brain processes immediately. Needless to say, this ability has allowed me to avoid a ton of accidents in my 15 years of driving - I've never been in an accident, even when I was in situations where it wouldn't have been my fault, and I have a 45 minute commute to work everyday on a densely packed highway.

Channeling requires the existence of a spirit world, and requires us to transcend into beings of energy upon death. I've encountered nothing in my life that makes me feel that this is the case.

I do believe that telepathy, telekinesis, and the ability "Shatterpoint" (an ability that Mace Windu has in the Star Wars universe) are very real abilities. The Shatterpoint ability is knowing right when something is on the precipice of breaking, shattering, or failing, basically. I feel that I'm in-tune with this ability as I'm very good at taking things right to the edge of where they are about to break, without taking them beyond. Where even an ounce of additional force would break or shatter an object. I think this is a combination of advanced spatial awareness and heightened senses.

I also believe that we have the ability to listen to our bodies, as they will tell us what they require to recover from sickness and injury.

[Moon]

It would all depend on if the event is a set point in time which cannot be changed (I have been watching too much Doctor Who).

There are other psychic abilities besides reading the future, but I also am a bit skeptical about those who claim to foretell the future.

[Serene]

I believe that if a psychic tells you something about a future event to happen in your life, he or she sees it as the outcome of your CURRENT situation or behavior at the time of your reading.

But since we ALWAYS have choices you also can also always CHANGE that future at any given time. So the psychic is not necessarily wrong with his/her predictions, you only decided to change course and therefore changed the future that the psychic was seeing for you at the time of the reading.

Wow, does that make sense to anyone? Not sure if I explained myself correctly....

[Sunrisepony]

I think you explained your self very well, and I agree. It not only depends on the choices the individual makes, but the influences of everyone else involved in the situation. There are always thousands of other choices that influence everything, thought is the basis of all reality, and to often that one little thing is forgotten.

The things I've predicted have mostly been roughly inevitable situations, like earthquakes ( I got two within a half hour of them occurring), car accidents that happened within proximity of where we were going, those again within about half an hour. I think twice I predicted changes in relationships, but those were about 6 months in advanced. How much of it was just luck and how much actual heightened senses/psi went into it. I haven't the slightest clue.

I have a love / hate relationship with thunder and electrical/lightning storms. They give me migraines and generally my head gets all foggy, but then also my abilities get stronger and more focused.

Think about Alice Cullen, the "vampire" she can see the future of the person what ever 'current' path they are on, but once they change their mind about something, the future/path/situation changes. That doesn't make the ability or the psychic any less real or accurate. I have to give Stephanie Meyer some credit in that aspect. She really got it "right on the nail" when she wrote at least about Alice Cullen's ability, and in a rough sense Jasper and Edward's too. Other peoples moods, and the general atmosphear of a room can influence a Empath (ie: like Jasper Cullen) but I have yet to see enough substantiated evidence of an Empath having the ability to project emotions onto another person. But, it's possible. Then you look at the root of Edward Cullen's ability, he's a Telepath, a highly focused one.

[Moon]

Natural disasters are set points in time and cannot be changed. Decisions made by humans are something that we all can change. I do think this is what Serene is trying to say. I do agree with this and if it is possible for a psychic to see a possible outcome of the future of a human, that is something which can be changed. Instead of going to point A, change to point B to avert certain bad tidings.

[siren13]

I agree with all of what you all have said. I will share my experience. I become friends with an elder woman a year after she read me. The thing is she has never met me before my reading. I had a friend named Brian that killed himself when we were both 19. We had been best friends for years we would lose touch then contact each other. about 6 years ago Pat read me and first thing she said - I wasn't even thinking about him or anything no photos nothing..she said to me "who is Brian he is telling me not to worry about him anymore.." I think right then and there I lost it balled like a baby. She is probably one of the best mediums I have ever met. Not a conventional person either. Not a liar, not a fraud. A genuine person. Sometimes it is easier to believe when that happens than things you experience yourself.

With yourself you are constantly questioning yourself.