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[Zombi2012]

how many people trust him? do you believe that hes been "debunked"? the way i see it, if i cant trust sitchin, how can i trust the people debunking him? Im so sick of all this "hes wrong im right, no im right hes wrong" bullcrap.

[amnesiac]

I always prefer like I say "the golden middle way ", it is what my life taught me and it means if you look around theres always a little truth and a little lie or halftruth on anything people say, write and teach...Maybe there are exceptions but in this particular topic it is very hard to recognize what is truth and what was authors imagination. It is peoples style to add personal feelings or stories which are often based on facts that could not be verified ( like Mr.X said 50 years ago that.........., or my grandpa saw a document about........which has been later destroyed ........). Everyone has some sort of desire to be popular and famous and sometimes it is also a part of authors work ( or contract ) to get people confused by disinformation for a purpose. Thats why for example bible is so big mess nowadays.....Who knows ? I always try to take from any book or source of data just what seems to me reliable and logical. I almost never trust everything what someone says. You always need to use your own mind and education and try to verify informations someone gives you, if possible of course, because if you dont, its first step to get brainwashed.

[truthseeker]

its also a good idea to pick 1 issue which (as amnesiac says) seems logical to YOU and do further research on that specific issue.
it would be wrong for anyone to try to to verify every single thing a person says or writes about.

if you get stuck while researching its a good idea to ask others to help you, (maybe someone has the answer your looking for) and once you have your answer you can then move on to the next set of questions
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[Jeff Sheets]

I have a low opinion of the term "Debunking". Some use it too easily. It seems that the physicists of the time had thought they had debunked Albert Einsteins theories because the math didn't work out...imagine that! He came up with the Cosmological Constant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant which was intended to balance his equations. This figure was controversial and arbitrary at the time, but it turns out it eventually described dark matter.

My point is that theories like ZS and EVD have lots of components that seem to depend on each other. When someone points out one of those components as incorrect, they assume they have brought the whole theory down. In reality, some of those components may only "support" one another, but the lack of one or even two wouldn't destroy the theory.

One example: ZS claims a planet called Nibiru, that comes in and out of the solar system like a comet on an elliptical orbit on a 32,000 year orbit. Though astronomers have observed some fairly large planets that "could" fit the description, there is no definitive explanation of how a planet like that could support any life, let alone advanced intelligient life. It is possible that Nibiru exists as a volcanically active world, possibly revolving closely around a brown dwarf sun nearby, or it doesn't exist and was invented to overcome another problem that AAT debunkers often use as "evidence" of their claims, which is the vast distances between the stars and therefore no alien has ever been able to make it here. Either way, his translations of ancient babylonian and the connections he makes between civilizations make a great case for some of his theories all by themselves.

Another example: EVD cited the Tayos Gold in one of his early books (COG? I think). Claims that these artifacts have been lost again and the discoverer disappeared are used to "debunk" his theories. I personally wouldn't mind knowing what happened here because they were some pretty awesome artifacts that could be used as solid evidence of the AAT. Maybe they will turn up, maybe they wont.

In my thinking, none of the current debunking examples are enough to overcome the theories described. Also, I do not depend on the theorists' writings alone to make my own beliefs or arguments. I have a brain and I work it out for myself. If I can't do that, then I have done no better than following some new religion.
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[Zombi2012]

wow you guys have no idea how much that helps me, thanks alot! And a note to xanthur, i thought he said Nibirus orbit was 3600 years? Ive never seen it as 32,000, though i could be wrong

[Zombi2012]

sorry for double post but i forgot to mention that i did see a video on either youtube or disclose.tv that had a interview with a astrobiologist and he said that it could be possible for a planet as big as jupiter to support life so far away from the sun, as it will sustain its own internal heat or something like that. if i find this vid ill post it.

[Jeff Sheets]

Yeah, my mistake. Good catch. ZS says it is 3600 years which (if you believe it synchronizes with the Mayan calendar) would make the last time approximately 1588 B.C. and the time before that 5188 B.C. which follows with each of the major advances between stoneage-bronzeage-Ironage. Plausible from that perspective.

Also, I did read somewhere too that a larger planet that was solid enough to have tectonics to keep it warm might support life, but IMO the constraints are more difficult with more gravity, even if there is more heat. I think it is a little less plausible.

Interesting the astronomers found another batch of super earth type planets between 3 and ten times the size of earth. One has a year of 3 years. The telemetry is getting more accurate all the time. Soon we will have candidate star systems a reasonable distance away for travel.
_________________
Forge of Creation - http://www.aliengods.jbsheets.com

The art of life is to go confidently, without
rushing, without faltering. To meet and
master the four natural challenges:
Fear, Clarity of Thought, Power, and the
Desire to Rest.

[Zombi2012]

how did you come up with the date 1588b.c.? Im just wondering because thats really interesting to me, because if thats right then Nibiru will return in 2012.

[Jeff Sheets]

Innocent question, but it got me thinking.

That's what I mean. Since there is no real concrete starting date for the 3600 year period of Nibiru, I just counted back. I synchronized with the Mayan calendar and worked back. Seemed reasonable to me. If the calendar makes any sense, then it should tie together. The more I think about it, it doesn't. There are a couple of problems with it. So this is me saying Oops....you made me look up stuff.

Here is my logic. I figure that the Mayan calendar should be tied with something. Nothing else seems significant enough to attach to it. The Mayan researchers say the calendar long count is 5126 years and starts at 3114 B.C. which doesn't coincide with any of ZS' Nibiru dates. If something as significant as Nibiru is true, then there should be some really big monument to it that doesn't necessarily have to be regional. I was connecting the dots.

I said:

[Zombi2012]

ok sitchin says in his book "the 12th planet" than about 13,000 years ago nibiru was approaching so the annunaki fled earth to escape the deluge, which destroyed man. but what im confused about is that this date is on a date table. the earliest date is 445,000 years ago, when enki arrived on earth. he makes no mention of nibiru crossing earths orbit between those two dates. So did nibiru just miss earth all the other times, but got to close 13,000 years ago?

[Jeff Sheets]

So 13,000 years ago was 10,992 B.C. which would make the conjunctions (using 3700 years as a median, so give or take a hundred years) 7292 B.C., 3592 B.C., 108 A.D., and 3808 A.D...hell, if our civilization doesn't destroy itself, by the time they show up again, we could be THEIR gods...

There's one...108 AD would be within a couple of hundred years for the story of Constantine and the Mivian Bridge story. This is 312 A.D. The angels came down and fought for his cause....Well, it was believable enough to start Catholicism... That might be a candidate for alignment.

445,000 years ago is about right for the emergence of homosapiens. Several different kinds. Neandertal, Cro-Magnon, Modern, Peking...You're right though, no records of in-between visits. Where is that date from?

Maybe Nibiru is on an unstable orbit? That would make it come close at varying times or at varying distances. Ever use a spirograph as a kid? The orbits themselves are the same size but they intersect at different places.

But more seriously, If ZS theories (and the time periods suggested) are to have credibility, you need some kind of artifact that shows the same periodicity such as a calendar system that shows these dates as significant, or a monument that shows the correct star positions at one of these times (since there is a movement in the galaxy, not only around the center but some stars tip up and down the plane that makes the stars change.) Anything like this could collaborate the periods ...if Nibiru exists.

I figure even if ZS isn't correct about Nibiru, he seems to have been right about their influence. The gods could have come from a nibiru-like planet anywhere nearby, or a nearby star system, or even as their extreme age suggests, they are from other parts of the galaxy. The latter is much less plausible. Do we have any evidence that they had any type of extra-relativistic travel? I really don't even rule out the possibility that they are super advanced earth-based beings from a previous civilization, but all of this is just speculation without more evidence.
_________________
Forge of Creation - http://www.aliengods.jbsheets.com

The art of life is to go confidently, without
rushing, without faltering. To meet and
master the four natural challenges:
Fear, Clarity of Thought, Power, and the
Desire to Rest.

[Zombi2012]

the dates are from his book, "the wars of gods and men". I agree with you in that it is possible that "they" could have been from a earth-based anvanced civ, maybe atlantis or lemuria? Im glad you brought that up.

[Beastguy]

Has anyone here ever read this?

http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/sitchinerrors.htm#nephilim

[upperworld]

One thing i would like to point out regarding Nibiru and its orbit:

As Zecharia Sitchin interprets Nibiru entered our solar system on an irregular orbit and caused all kinds of chaos colliding with Uranus and then eventually Tiamat (earth's predecessor) forever altering the make-up of our world.

Now if Nibiru was on such a chaotic course and caused so much turmoil could that have happened before? Well it seems unlikely to me because this story of Nibiru was recorded by the sumerians and undoubtedly passed down to them by the annunaki. (according to Sitchin) So if Nibiru had entered our solar system before they hadn't told the Sumerians that information, and if it had wouldn't it more than likely have caused similar collisions the previous time?

Now assuming then that this particular trip on this irregular elliptical orbit that Nibiru altered the shape of our solar system was its first it is similarly possible that it was atleast one of its last trips as well. Perhaps Nibiru made it back through a second time 3600 years later, or more, but the chances of Nibiru completing this erratic orbit with any kind of consistency and not cause major collisions within our solar system is unlikely.

So what i theorize is that as Nibiru had exited our solar system the last time, likely after only a few successful orbits, it caused similar catastrophic collsions beyond our solar system perhaps around this mysterious brown dwarf star it might orbit. These new collisions have altered the course of Nibiru much as it altered the orbits of the celestial bodies in our solar system. Therefore everyone who is holding their breath for Nibiru's return in 2012 should not be dissapointed when Nibiru does not return.

Why should it be logical to us that Nibiru could have shaped the development of our solar system, been responsible for Uranus sitting on its side, the asteroid belt between the inner and outer planets, the creation of our earth and moon from tiamat and kingu but not be responsible for similar events elsewhere?
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