Precession of the Equinoxes

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Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:14 pm

I have heard about earth's wobble (counterclockwise)...
I have heard that many ancient structures are aligned to track said wobble (precession of the equinoxes)...
I have heard that the Sumerian aliens were especially attuned to the wobble (along with the Indian and Asian Races)...

Does anyone know the date when the next change of the zodiac will be?
So which house (zodiac) are we currently in and which zodiac will be next?
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Lonewolf Howling » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:23 pm

If I'm not mistaking we are in Capricorn moving to the age of Aquarius. When the shift really is ? It's happening right now, there's no exact date I think. Like you can feel he summer coming, but it is stil spring now.
After that in about 2150 years we go to Pieces . After Pieces it starts all over again

Here's the Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Aquarius
a well know song about it ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhbxI5eVnM4
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:11 am

We are moving from Pisces to Aquarius. Over 2000 years ago (when the Greeks were mapping the sky) it was in Aries, and so the Vernal Equinox (zero right ascension point) is still called the First Point of Aries. Each age lasts about 2160 years.

Working backwards we go through the signs of the Zodiac in forward order, so before Aries it was Taurus. This might be significant in mythology and associated symbolism such as with the Christian era being during the Age of Pisces; Leo is about 11000 to 9000 BCE. The exact point one age ends and another begins is hard to define due to the uncertainty of the constellations. The zero point has pretty much been set in our era as I understand it so a 1 degree error would equate to about 72 years difference.

The Earth has various cycles - the Malinkovitch Cycles are from a combination of precession of the poles, nodding of the axis and precession of the orbit and others.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:25 am

It's agreed then, the order is thus:

Aries, Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Libra, Virgo, Leo, Cancer, Gemini, Taurus, Aries...

According to LH it rotates left (counterclock wise) and BB says it rotates right (clockwise), however both agree we are moving into the Age of Aquarius...and we don't yet know where we are :D (either Pisces or Capricorn), or when it will change...

BB also pegs Leo at 11,000 - 9000 BC.
Are there any other dates out there (references) that are pegged to the zodiac?
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:24 am

I can't think of any dates as such, but periods that worship bulls (Egyptian Apis bulls), or rams, fish etc. might be indicators of the time of their origin.

Just to explain, the zero right ascension is where the ecliptic (apparent yearly path of the sun) crosses the plain of the equator. There is a corresponding 180 degree spot where it crosses again. At the Solstices the sun is at its highest and lowest points on the ecliptic and this passes through two more signs of the Zodiac. The Zodiac itself is all constellations the sun passes through, although Ophiuchus is not included.

Therefore we have four natural points at right angles, and this I suspect lies behind the four faces Ezekiel sees and feature in the Bible: that of a bull, lion, eagle and man. But this would imply an origin in the Age of Taurus (or Leo even), which is ...um...4000 - 2000 BCE.

I would like to know just how old the zodiac symbolism is, who first labelled them. Because without knowing that then using it to date anything is meaningless, and I have no idea on this. Presumably, when they were first named the symbols depicted must have had some relevance to daily life (Pegasus could be the Tablet for example). How long have scales been used to weigh items?
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Don Morace » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:38 am

Hi Folks,Don here,Buzi,check out the Sumerian texts supposedly Sitchin got his info on the zodiak from thier ancient writings.Don out......................... :D
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Lonewolf Howling » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:12 am

Lonewolf Howling wrote:If I'm not mistaking we are in Capricorn moving to the age of Aquarius.


And I was ....... I'm walking backwards :mrgreen:
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:50 pm

LH no need to be green, it's a learning process for me too...
BC
28,740-Aries
26,604-Pisces
24,469-Aquarius
22,333-Capricorn
20,198-Sagittarius
18,062-Scorpio
15,927-Libra
13,791-Virgo
11,655-Leo
9520-Cancer
7384-Gemini
5249-Taurus
3113-Aries
978-Pisces

AD
1158-Aquarius
3294-Capricorn


If you do the math, you'll notice that I'm using 2135.36 years per zodiac vs 2160.
Buzi-Blu's placed a 11,000-9,000 BC estimate for Leo. The above timeline accommodates that... (11,655 BC- 9520 BC)

As you can see Aquarius started 1158 AD and changes to Capricorn in 3294 AD.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:29 am

Once we have one date fixed, we can easily work backwards and forwards to calculate the dates but deciding that first date is not so clear. It seems the total time for the poles to precess is also uncertain but I'm happy with any estimate for a Zodiacal age from 2135 to 2160.

Consider this image:

Image
Source: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/education/skytellers/constellations/about.shtml

We have 12 signs spreading in a complete circle and our task is to divide them into 12 equal segments. As you can see, we have some flexibility in placing a 12 pointed star shape over this. The Age we are in starts when the point marking the Vernal Equinox enters the next sign. This means when when the Sun on March 21st (or thereabouts) enters the sign. Since we obviously cannot see the stars in daylight, it's worth remembering that this also means that at midnight on that day we will have the sign that is directly opposite visible when looking due south.

If we concentrate on the boundary between Pisces and Aquarius, it is anything but clear where that exact spot should be and as I said earlier, every degree difference equals a 72 year difference. Incidentally, if you look at the dates for birthdays for Star signs you'll see that it is way out of line.

I don't quite get where the 1158 AD date for Aquarius comes from, seems much too early for me.

Actually, there's a very useful free program you can use: StarCalc 5.72. This is a nice little program that lets you put in any date and location and see what the sky looks like. There is a feature where you can show the constellation boundary lines, and when I did this (keeping the Sun on the Celestial Equator) and moved it forward year by year it looks to me that the Sun enters Aquarius around 2090 AD. Note that the Sun is still in Pisces at this time because they overlap, but these are modern boundary lines.

It's a great program for any astronomical work. Accurate and simple to use you can play around looking for the Star of Bethlehem or just what is visible from your home.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:22 pm

Buzi-Blu wrote:Once we have one date fixed, 3113 BC was the beginning of Age 5 of the Mayan Earth Calendar and the start of Aries - could be the fix.

we can easily work backwards and forwards to calculate the dates but deciding that first date is not so clear. It seems the total time for the poles to precess is also uncertain but I'm happy with any estimate for a Zodiacal age from 2135 to 2160.
I've read of another rate of 1.36 degrees per 100 years
Would you agree that precession has 13 signs in its zodiac?
And the image below is the astrological zodiac used in horoscopes as passed down from greece and ultimately sumeria with their 12.
Is it just me or shouldn't the earth be where the sun is?


Consider this image:

Image
Source: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/education/skytellers/constellations/about.shtml

We have 12 signs spreading in a complete circle and our task is to divide them into 12 equal segments. As you can see, we have some flexibility in placing a 12 pointed star shape over this. The Age we are in starts when the point marking the Vernal Equinox enters the next sign. This means when when the Sun on March 21st (or thereabouts) enters the sign. Since we obviously cannot see the stars in daylight, it's worth remembering that this also means that at midnight on that day we will have the sign that is directly opposite visible when looking due south.

If we concentrate on the boundary between Pisces and Aquarius, it is anything but clear where that exact spot should be and as I said earlier, every degree difference equals a 72 year difference. It is unclear, however that is how the mayan earth calendar comes in and counts the days in each zodiac be it
Incidentally, if you look at the dates for birthdays for Star signs you'll see that it is way out of line.

I don't quite get where the 1158 AD date for Aquarius comes from, seems much too early for me.
The 1158 AD is synchronized to 3113 BC/Aries and the 12 signs in astrology

Actually, there's a very useful free program you can use: StarCalc 5.72. This is a nice little program that lets you put in any date and location and see what the sky looks like. There is a feature where you can show the constellation boundary lines, and when I did this (keeping the Sun on the Celestial Equator) and moved it forward year by year it looks to me that the Sun enters Aquarius around 2090 AD. Note that the Sun is still in Pisces at this time because they overlap, but these are modern boundary lines.
there is no overlap when you can count the days

It's a great program for any astronomical work. Accurate and simple to use you can play around looking for the Star of Bethlehem or just what is visible from your home.
does the program use 12 or 13 constellations?
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:22 am

First, the diagram. It could be done with either the Earth or Sun at the centre. Look at the September position: from the Earth the Sun will be seen with Leo as the backdrop, and the night sky will have Aquarius to the south. The Earth at the centre would probably be more practical as then we could also determine that Taurus and Scorpio would be East and West (at around midnight). But the main reason I included it was to show that there is no clear dividing point between each sign.

Whether the Zodiac has 12 or 13 signs depends on what you want to do with it I guess, it's all a bit arbitrary. The 1.36 degrees per 100 years is equal to 1 degree per 72 years.

The 3113 BCE date seems more to do with the Mayan calendar than with the Zodiac. As you can see from this image the Sun at the Vernal Equinox was well inside Aries, rather than moving from Taurus as you might expect.

Image


StarCalc lets you plot and view objects in the sky, it's just a database. Ophiuchus is a constellation and so is included but how you use it in relation to the Zodiac is up to you. What it lets you do is precisely calculate times when certain events occur, such as the Sun crossing the boundary of two constellations.

Image

As you can see here, Pisces continues to run past Aquarius on its upper border which means that the Sun can still be in Pisces but have gone beyond the leftmost edge of Aquarius. My date of 2090 AD was when the Sun was directly in line with that leftmost edge.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:14 pm

Buzi-Blu wrote:First, the diagram. It could be done with either the Earth or Sun at the centre. Look at the September position: from the Earth the Sun will be seen with Leo as the backdrop, and the night sky will have Aquarius to the south. The Earth at the centre would probably be more practical as then we could also determine that Taurus and Scorpio would be East and West (at around midnight). But the main reason I included it was to show that there is no clear dividing point between each sign.
What I inferred by saying there is no overlap when the days are counted - is that the sky is divided equally among the 12 or 13 constellations (depending on one's use). For instance if it takes 5 Mayan earth calendars for the 12 or 13 signs of the zodiacs to complete one wobble then:
1,872,000 days/earth calendar x 5 = 9,360,000 days per wobble = 25,626.82 years
using 12 signs = 780,000 days per sign = 2135.57 yrs/astrological sign
using 13 signs = 720,000 days per sign = 1971.29 yrs/astronomical sign


Whether the Zodiac has 12 or 13 signs depends on what you want to do with it I guess, it's all a bit arbitrary. The 1.36 degrees per 100 years is equal to 1 degree per 72 years.
converting that rate to years is actually 26,470.59 yrs. per wobble or 1 degree per 73.53 yrs

The 3113 BCE date seems more to do with the Mayan calendar than with the Zodiac. As you can see from this image the Sun at the Vernal Equinox was well inside Aries, rather than moving from Taurus as you might expect
Did you know that 3113 BC actually comes from the julian calendar being linked to the mayan earth calendar!
...

StarCalc lets you plot and view objects in the sky, it's just a database. Ophiuchus is a constellation and so is included but how you use it in relation to the Zodiac is up to you. What it lets you do is precisely calculate times when certain events occur, such as the Sun crossing the boundary of two constellations.
Can you figure out what constellations would be at the east - west horizon at sunrise on June 21, 2012 at Copan? (the mayan astronomical centre)

...

As you can see here, Pisces continues to run past Aquarius on its upper border which means that the Sun can still be in Pisces but have gone beyond the leftmost edge of Aquarius. My date of 2090 AD was when the Sun was directly in line with that leftmost edge.
It IMV that each constellation occupies and equal portion of time and it is the count of days that determines when they shift vs an arbitrary line drawn in the sky - a combination of both perhaps?
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:24 am

The more I look, the fuzzier it becomes. It doesn't seem like anyone can accurately say how long the Earth's poles take to precess - anywhere from 20 000 to 26 000 years.

This site explains the difference between Sidereal Zodiac and Tropical Zodiac, and how it started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_and_tropical_astrology

This site explains the Ages, and says the Age of Aquarius will start in about 360 years:
http://www.lunarplanner.com/siderealastrology.html

It also explains the astronomical Zodiac, which is what we see in StarCalc
Image
It seems - if I have this right - that Sidereal Aquarius starts at 23h 40m RA but I'm confused.

Some people use 12 equal signs, some use varying sizes, some use 13 and some 14. So, lots of variation.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:59 pm

Precisely why logic must prevail. If the sumerians and especially their descendants want to use 12 signs, fine. If the Amya and theirs want to use 13, okay.
The rate the wobble wobbles is unaffected by the use of 12 or 13 signs used to describe its motion.
The Indians used 28 constellations to track the wobble!!

If we were to look up in the night sky at the vernal equinox of 2013, what constellations would we see, both east and west, just at sunrise from Copan or Eridu (it's latitude dependent, right?)

Here's another question for StarCalc,
When was the last time (in BC years) was sidereal Aries in the vernal equinox when viewing from the Giza plateau?
When was Leo there?
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:45 am

polaris wrote:If we were to look up in the night sky at the vernal equinox of 2013, what constellations would we see, both east and west, just at sunrise from Copan or Eridu (it's latitude dependent, right?)

Here's another question for StarCalc,
When was the last time (in BC years) was sidereal Aries in the vernal equinox when viewing from the Giza plateau?
When was Leo there?


Simplest way is to play around with it http://homes.relex.ru/~zalex/files_eng.htm

These are quite complex and time-consuming questions, with lots of extra factors to consider. To answer the Giza question: using StarCalc I get a date of about 100 BC was when the Vernal Equinox was last in Astronomical Aries (because that is what StarCalc uses). Sideral Aries will give a little later date, and Leo is high in the east sky at sunset.

If we are considering the present Vernal Equinox, then at this time at sunrise we will always see Pisces in the east, and consequently Virgo in the west. What you see that night depends upon the time.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby yerock III stoneman » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:02 am

Hi y'all.
Anyone with a hand held device/smart phone should download "google sky map". It's a free app. One of my favorites.
For instance, use it to look at the sun with a nite sky in the background. Watch as Venus and the sun align this June. On the Summer Solstice, see what stars are on the same degree as the sun.
Of course, you can use it to identify celestial objects in the nite sky, and change the time and date for future/past skies. Enter a search term like "Mercury" and the screen will point show you the way. Look at what's happening up there on your birthday.
You really get a sense of "space" standing there spinning in a circle following the zodiac. Lots of settings to play with, all for free.
(No, I don't work for google or hold their stock. Lol.)
And no, it won't tell us exactly when the next age of Aquarius/Atlas/Atlantis starts.
... Peace.
..
"Beneath the tides of time and space, strange fish are swimming" Charles Berlitz
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:54 pm

2260 BC - end of Taurus, beginning of Aries
100 BC - end of Aries, beginning of Pisces
my respective dates are:
3113 BC
978 BC
Which means we, ladies and gentlemen, have record of one complete wobble.
The second wobble having begun between 3113 & 2260 BC.
Therefore the first started around 28,740 BC (the earliest).

---edited May 1, 2012---
using the 13 Sideral Constellations (12 horoscope signs + Ophiuchus)
Aquarius started about 632 AD and ends 720,000 days later ~ 2505 AD.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby phoenix » Tue May 01, 2012 9:28 pm

Lately i have been doing some study on the precession of the equinoxes while I came across a book written by a guy called Walter Cruttenden . The book is titled “Lost star of myth and time”, and it raises the question if our sun is a part of a binary star system. I have not yet read the book, but I have read a short article from this book, which is called “is the sun part of a binary star system? Six reasons to consider”. Please take a moment to read this article before continuing reading. The article can be read on the following link:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/23048 ... o-Consider

I have for a long time doubted the earth’s wobble theory myself , because I can’t find it to fit with ancient texts giving away information about this system.
In the very early stages of earth colonization (up until the time of the great flood), the aliens kept a base on the earth in the middle east area. In Genesis, this base is called Paradise (or The garden of Eden). The huge structure that the alien kept in this base was probably a spaceship that functioned as a habitation as well as a science station for the aliens while they were busy colonizing earth , which were in its final stages in those days.

Very few human beings were allowed to get close to this base or actually get aboard this spaceship to have a look at it. It was generally off limits and it left earth shortly before the great flood. The spaceship has since then been referred to in myths about seven heavens (the habitation of the angels).
However. One of the few human beings who actually was allowed to see this spaceship was Enoch. Enoch was abducted by the aliens and was appointed one of their senior officers (Meta-Throne which means next to the Throne). Enoch wrote about this ceremony and a round tour he was given while he was aboard this spaceship in one of his books. He later gave these books away to his sons before he left earth. We can still read about it in the second book of Enoch (also called the book of the secrets of Enoch).

The upper habitable part of the spaceship rested on a oval landing gear. This landing gear is described as having four legs attached to it with four rockets or engines in the middle of it. Each of the legs supporting the structure is described as having an image on it. These images was the four cardinal signs in a contallation of a zodiac. Thus one leg looked like an Ox, one like a Man, one like a Lion and one like an Eagle. Each of these images (except the man) are described as animals with a human face. According to The Legends of the jews, it was the Ox sign that was most visable from earth, because that was the image that was in front of the spaceship. It was for this reason that the jews made the golden calf, when this spaceship finally descended to earth again and landed in Sinai (close to Petra) shortly after the exodus.

The seven heavens, are the structure that was on top of the landing gear. It is often described as palaces within palaces, leading me to believe that the spaceship probably was two stories high, made out of seven internal main sections. The upper most story (the seventh heaven) contained the officer decks. This deck was made out of three sections (the eight, ninth and tenth heaven). It was probably a very lofty section where the ceiling was formed as a dome. It is under the ceiling in this dome that Enoch describes the huge circular Zodiac that was made out of twelve signs. It was carved out or painted under the ceiling in “the seventh heaven” in this spaceship. Enoch also describes that he saw twelve heavenly homes in one of these sections. Those “homes” were probably the offices for the twelve ministers (Thrones). These offices was oriented in a circle each representing one of the zodiac signs.

From the book of the secrets of Enoch:

“ And I saw the eighth heaven, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Muzaloth, changer of the seasons, of drought, and of wet, and of the twelve constellations of the circle of the firmament, which are above the seventh heaven.And I saw the ninth heaven, which is called in Hebrew Kuchavim, where are the heavenly homes of the twelve constellations of the circle of the firmament”

From the legends of the Jews, we learn that it was only the first heaven that was visable for the human beings. That is logical, because that was the bottom deck in the structure. It is described as being made out of a shiny , clear material. On top of the spaceship was a large bow. In the third book of Enoch we can read that light ran in a constant stream from one side of this bow to the other and it looked like a rainbow. To read more about this spaceship and the round tour that Enoch was given, I advise you all to read the entire chapter.

So what is my point in writing all this? The point is that I believe that the knowledge of the Zodiac and the precession of the equinoxes initially came from these aliens. The fact that these aliens had a carving or a painting of a zodiac aboard their spaceship teach us that these aliens observed the precession of the equinoxes already from their own home planet. It is thus not only from the earth that this precession can be observed. This eventually means that Walter Cruttenden could be right and that Sirius (where the aliens came from) and our sun both are part of a binary star system. That’s why the aliens came up with this galactic calendar. That’s why this system could be used on both planets. We are all part of a greater system.

This also explains the Sumerian texts and Sitchins theory of the planet of the crossing. Some times during the great circle of about 24000-26000 years our entire solar system and the Sirius system will cross its paths. This would definitely be a major event that surely would have an effect on earth somehow.

Even though it was Newton who eventually came up with the wobble theory, it could be wrong. In my opinion the earth’s tilt and the wobble was a result of alien manipulation of earth of some sort. This manipulation caused the great flood and started the great cycle of weather on earth. This probably happened some 12000-15000 years ago. The galatic calendar we call The Zodiac had been in use by the aliens for thousand of year before that time.

Sirius are for the time being approaching earth. That probably means that the crossing are about to take place in the near future. That also lead us to speculate how close the aliens home planet and the earth could come, and what the closest distance between these planets in this binary system could be. It is probably when the distance between our planets are the shortest that a visit from them is most probable.

Perhaps we thus can conclude that:

(1)The earth orbits the sun in about 365 days. (2) Our sun (and our entire solar system) orbits Sirius in about 25000 years. (3) Our solar system orbits the center of the galaxy in about 225-250 million years.

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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Wed May 02, 2012 11:38 am

Walter Cruttenden imho, is making things too complex. Go and spin a kid's top or a gyroscope and watch precession occur as the spinner slows. Initially when it has lots of angular momentum, there is very little precession (0 degrees) - as it slows, precession slowly begins to increase. Could earth's tilt (23.5 degrees) provide an age as to how long our earthly top has been spinning?

While a binary star could have the same effect, I am of the view that the earth revolves around the sun and the sun revolves around the centre of the galaxy (although there could be another "regional centre" out there).

Enoch saw the earth from a spaceship that was in orbit around the earth. He was then shown the planets in orbit around the sun. The 7 heavens are the "inner planets" in solar orbit:
0 Sun
1 Mercury
2 Venus
3 Moon
4 Earth
5 Mars
6 Asteroidia
7 NIBIRU
8 Jupiter
9 Saturn
10 Uranus
11 Neptune
12 Pluto
or they could have shown him the constellations that make up the ecliptic plane and because he was Sumerian they showed him 12.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby phoenix » Wed May 02, 2012 9:02 pm

Thanks for feedback Polaris. You could off course be right. It is off course impossible for me to prove that the seven heavens actually builds on an ancient myth about a description of an ancient spaceship. I will perhaps write another post on the subject later on to argue my points about that.

However. There are very much evidence in several ancient texts that indicates that it was the pre flood aliens that created the system of measuring time by watching the precession of the equinoxes. They did probably not want to share this knowledge with the humans, but thanks to the rebel of the watchers we got part of this knowledge anyway. I don’t know if you agree on that or not, but i find it hard to believe that the pre flood humans just by observing the galaxy with their own eyes could come up with such an advanced system by themselves.

How could they possibly find out that the earth wobbles and is tilted and that this could be used to make out a galactic calendar? I also find it hard to believe that the aliens created the system while they stayed here on earth. Even though you don’t believe in the seven heaven/spaceship connection, there are a lot of ancient texts that describes different aliens flying objects that had images on it like a man/ox/eagle/lion. This strongly suggests that the aliens knew about this system already before they arrived here, because they didn’t make their spaceships here on earth.

It is correct that Enoch also writes about a tour he was given by the aliens while he was aboard one of their flying objects . This tour is described in the first book of Enoch. This tour however seems to me to be a roundtrip around the world , or in the region. It does not indicate that he actually was brought into space. Here are for instance one of his description from this tour, where he mentions the Sphinx in Egypt. Notice that he refer to it as the angel of Zotiel. An ancient name for Sirius.

Also notice the fact that he is referring to the Sphinx as an Angel. That means it was probably not built by human beings.

“And thence I went over the summits of ⌈all⌉ these mountains, far towards the east ⌈of the earth⌉, and passed above the Erythraean sea and went far from it, and passed over ⌈⌈the angel⌉⌉ Zotîêl.”

As I said above. I will probably come back and post an article about the myths about the seven heavens later on, but how would you explain that enoch saw armed soldiers playing live music in the fourth heaven? (This is taken from the second book of Enoch).

“In the midst of the heavens I saw armed soldiers, serving the Lord, with tympana and organs, with incessant voice, with sweet voice, with sweet and incessant voice and various singing, which it is impossible to describe, and which astonishes every mind, so wonderful and marvellous is the singing of those angels, and I was delighted listening to it.”

And lastly. Do you or any other have any suggestions when the earth actually start to wobble or got its tilt. Does anuone have any ideas about this. Was it a result of something that happened during the great flood or has it always been like that? This is crucial information, because if it happened during the time of the flood, this means that the precession versus the wobble theory was not what the aliens based their system on, because the system is a lot older than that.

Regarding Walter Cruttenden. I don't know whether he is right or wrong, but he nevertheless has brought up an interesting theory . Don't you think? In my eyes, this theory of his fits with my views. I think i will go out an buy this book to read more.

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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Thu May 03, 2012 8:23 am

phoenix wrote:Thanks for feedback Polaris. You could off course be right. It is off course impossible for me to prove that the seven heavens actually builds on an ancient myth about a description of an ancient spaceship. I will perhaps write another post on the subject later on to argue my points about that.

However. There are very much evidence in several ancient texts that indicates that it was the pre flood aliens that created the system of measuring time by watching the precession of the equinoxes. They did probably not want to share this knowledge with the humans, but thanks to the rebel of the watchers we got part of this knowledge anyway. I don’t know if you agree on that or not, but i find it hard to believe that the pre flood humans just by observing the galaxy with their own eyes could come up with such an advanced system by themselves.
For clarity, I am of the view there are at least five races of man on earth and we are discussing one of them, the Sumerian Race. I too agree that the pre-flood Sumerians could not come up with the earth's precession.

How could they possibly find out that the earth wobbles and is tilted and that this could be used to make out a galactic calendar? I also find it hard to believe that the aliens created the system while they stayed here on earth.
Call me anal! They taught all five races how to track time from earth's perspective - the Mayans have the best record of how it was taught. A count of 360 days to be exact. They also taught to track our 365.2424 day rotation via the equinox - vital for agricultural purposes.

Even though you don’t believe in the seven heaven/spaceship connection, there are a lot of ancient texts that describes different aliens flying objects that had images on it like a man/ox/eagle/lion. This strongly suggests that the aliens knew about this system already before they arrived here, because they didn’t make their spaceships here on earth. I believe that they have spaceships, big ones and small ones...they like us, put images on our aircraft - they were known (through ancient text) to fight amongst themselves, so identifying markings were used (man/ox/eagle/lion etc).

It is correct that Enoch also writes about a tour he was given by the aliens while he was aboard one of their flying objects . This tour is described in the first book of Enoch. This tour however seems to me to be a roundtrip around the world , or in the region. It does not indicate that he actually was brought into space. Here are for instance one of his description from this tour, where he mentions the Sphinx in Egypt. Notice that he refer to it as the angel of Zotiel. An ancient name for Sirius.
I'll take your word for it regarding the translations of the ancient names - and we agree Enoch was taken for a ride.
Also notice the fact that he is referring to the Sphinx as an Angel. That means it was probably not built by human beings.Definitely agree with you on that point! Human labour likely had to be involved - it IMV that that labour was paid vs slave!
“And thence I went over the summits of ⌈all⌉ these mountains, far towards the east ⌈of the earth⌉, and passed above the Erythraean sea and went far from it, and passed over ⌈⌈the angel⌉⌉ Zotîêl.”

As I said above. I will probably come back and post an article about the myths about the seven heavens later on, but how would you explain that enoch saw armed soldiers playing live music in the fourth heaven? (This is taken from the second book of Enoch).

“In the midst of the heavens I saw armed soldiers, serving the Lord, with tympana and organs, with incessant voice, with sweet voice, with sweet and incessant voice and various singing, which it is impossible to describe, and which astonishes every mind, so wonderful and marvellous is the singing of those angels, and I was delighted listening to it.”
I re-read the 'cliff notes' of 2 Enoch (wiki), Enoch was shown how things are controlled by these people, again primarily of the Sumerian race... other things were going on elsewhere with the other four races... He was shown and given planetary-scale knowledge, he was then returned to earth with the task to teach/pass on this information in such a way as to keep the Sumerian Race from imploding or reverting back to a savage state, thus digressing into obscurity...
And lastly. Do you or any other have any suggestions when the earth actually start to wobble or got its tilt. Does anuone have any ideas about this. My logic is in the previous post, it's likely related to the how much the tidal forces slow earth's spin. Another theory has catacalysmic changes to the planetary tilt caused by the periodic introduction of planet-sized gravity...(e.g. Nibiru orbiting through its perihelion)
Was it a result of something that happened during the great flood or has it always been like that? This is crucial information, because if it happened during the time of the flood, this means that the precession versus the wobble theory was not what the aliens based their system on, because the system is a lot older than that. IMV there was more than one flood. In short, there was a planetary flood/tsunami that began to open up vast tracks of habitable/arable land north and south of the tropics, it began when the North America ice sheets were descimated...causing a chain of events that we are only now trying to comprehend. There was another regional flood in the Persian Gulf aka Noah's Flood/tsunami (according to the Greek scribe Berossus - the flood was 120 shar after a Nibiru perihelion) my date is ~6169 BC

Regarding Walter Cruttenden. I don't know whether he is right or wrong, but he nevertheless has brought up an interesting theory . Don't you think? Indeed it has its merits. In my eyes, this theory of his fits with my views. Interplanetary seems more plausible, imv. I think i will go out an buy this book to read more. I hope you will buy mine if I can get it written and published :wink:

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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Thu May 03, 2012 12:42 pm

This is becoming a more interesting topic than I had expected, and not so clear cut as first appeared. That was an interesting article by Walter Cruttenden, and if nothing else shows just how complex the whole issue of precession is. Here is some more from Cruttenden, which responds to a critic:

http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/bri/research/papers/bautforum.shtml

And something else I came across - asking if the Sun orbits Sirius:
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2009/08/03/does-our-sun-revolve-around-sirius-you-tell-me/
I remember from the time I was calculating where the shafts in the Great Pyramid were pointing, that Sirius has a large proper motion. What I didn't realize is that this motion almost balances out the precession.

A few questions come to mind. Surely it's only to be expected that our Solar System is drifting through space and affected by local clusters. And if the binary star theory is correct, then what effect do the Sun and Moon have on the Earth's oblate shape (ie standard precession explanation)?

I'm still struggling getting my head round what a rotating Solar System actually implies.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby phoenix » Fri May 04, 2012 4:45 am

Thanks for those links buzi-blu. Especially that with Walter cruttenden. That was probably the most interesting article I have read for years. Even though I didn’t understand all the technical detail I was able to get the essence, and Cruttenden sure makes a good impression.

It also looks to me that Walter cruttenden is more or less in the same situation that the aa-theorist’s are in. Cut out of the good society . The mainstream scientists still do what they always do. Defend their theories no matter what, and cruttenden is thus an outsider and more or less regarded an enemy and a threat. It feels so sad. We should all be on the same team. After all, we are all seeking the truth, no matter what that could be. I surely hope there are going to be a major change in this attitude in the future.

However.The more and more I read about this wobble theory the more sceptical I have become to it, and it does not do a good impression when I read that those mainstream scientists (more and more often) find it necessary to adjust the parameters in their wobble theory to explain the (more and more often) gaps and errors that seems to occur in it , so that it fit with their reality of the world. I'm really looking forward to read more of this development in the future.

Also it seems that more and more evidence are building up to support the idea that the Sirius system plays a more important role in our galaxy that many people actually has taught about. Surely the aliens did not put so much work into the great pyramid complex and the sphinx just to make some great structures. It surely was their way of pointing out to mankind where they actually came from.

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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Fri May 04, 2012 2:59 pm

This site clearly explains the similarities and differences between precession of a gyroscope and that of the Earth:

http://mb-soft.com/public/precess.html

The main conclusion is that the Earth's precession is a result of the Sun and Moon's attraction to the equatorial bulge. As a consequence the Sun's component is at maximum during the Solstices and drops to zero at the Equinoxes. The Moon's varies in a similar way on a monthly cycle, as well as extra factors due to its eccentric orbit inclined at 5 degrees to the Ecliptic.

So, we have specific difference to precession caused by the above and that due to the movement of the Solar System as part of a binary system. If precession of the Poles is taking place it will be periodic throughout the year

Image

But for a binary system it will remain smooth (a very slight curve from an upward diagonal). According to the site above, these fluctuations have been measured already. I don't know enough on this stuff to draw any conclusions from this.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Sun May 06, 2012 8:19 pm

That's obfuscation? Regardless of cause, the effect is present.
The rate is measured around 25,626 earth years per wobble or more accurately 9,360,000 earth days and is one of the longer counts...

It seems that if we, in our ancient (mythic) past knew of the zodiac, we were also taught precession - by my count that's three of five human races on this earth knew the zodiac (12), another used a zodiac of 13.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Mon May 07, 2012 1:05 am

polaris wrote:That's obfuscation? Regardless of cause, the effect is present.
The rate is measured around 25,626 earth years per wobble or more accurately 9,360,000 earth days and is one of the longer counts...

It seems that if we, in our ancient (mythic) past knew of the zodiac, we were also taught precession - by my count that's three of five human races on this earth knew the zodiac (12), another used a zodiac of 13.


What is? There is no precise value for a precessional year at present.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Mon May 07, 2012 6:47 am

Buzi-Blu wrote:
polaris wrote:That's obfuscation? Regardless of cause, the effect is present.
The rate is measured around 25,626 earth years per wobble or more accurately 9,360,000 earth days and is one of the longer counts...

It seems that if we, in our ancient (mythic) past knew of the zodiac, we were also taught precession - by my count that's three of five human races on this earth knew the zodiac (12), another used a zodiac of 13.


What is? There is no precise value for a precessional year at present.

If Ptolemy figured out an arc of precession with a time gap of about 169 years between himself and Hipparchus, why is it that in the intervening (2012 - 168) = 1844 years (since his death) that we cannot have it nailed to the 7th decimal point?

"The first astronomer known to have continued Hipparchus' work on precession is Ptolemy in the 2nd century. Ptolemy measured the longitudes of Regulus, Spica, and other bright stars with a variation of Hipparchus' lunar method that did not require eclipses. Before sunset, he measured the longitudinal arc separating the Moon from the Sun. Then, after sunset, he measured the arc from the Moon to the star. He used Hipparchus' model to calculate the Sun's longitude, and made corrections for the Moon's motion and its parallax (Evans 1998, pp. 251-255). Ptolemy compared his own observations with those made by Hipparchus, Menelaus of Alexandria, Timocharis, and Agrippa. He found that between Hipparchus' time and his own (about 265 years), the stars had moved 2°40', or 1° in 100 years (36" per year; the rate accepted today is about 50" per year or 1° in 72 years). He also confirmed that precession affected all fixed stars, not just those near the ecliptic, and his cycle had same period of 26,000 years as found by Hipparchus."

http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Sprecess.htm
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby Buzi-Blu » Mon May 07, 2012 7:28 am

polaris wrote:If Ptolemy figured out an arc of precession with a time gap of about 169 years between himself and Hipparchus, why is it that in the intervening (2012 - 168) = 1844 years (since his death) that we cannot have it nailed to the 7th decimal point?


There are many misconceptions being repeated, and I too had fallen for them until you began this thread. I remember on various occasions being told of the 26 000 year cycle (even at post-graduate level), but after looking a bit more deeply I find it is not precisely known at all. The problem is that precession is not constant and depends on various constantly changing factors.

A spinning top precesses at a steady rate, but the Earth does not. At the Equinoxes the Sun has no affect, but at the Solstices it is at maximum. For the Moon's effect it's the same but on a monthly cycle - 2 maximums and 2 minimums, with the result that the Earth will move in a periodic way, very different to a spinning top.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Mon May 07, 2012 1:14 pm

It's been 1844 years since the stars that Hipparchus and Ptolomy were used to measure precession!?
Anybody have access to a planetarium?
And let's calculate the rate together, as we'll get an average from ~2162 years.
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Re: Precession of the Equinoxes

Postby polaris » Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:02 pm

Buzi-Blu wrote:
polaris wrote:If Ptolemy figured out an arc of precession with a time gap of about 169 years between himself and Hipparchus, why is it that in the intervening (2012 - 168) = 1844 years (since his death) that we cannot have it nailed to the 7th decimal point?


There are many misconceptions being repeated, and I too had fallen for them until you began this thread. I remember on various occasions being told of the 26 000 year cycle (even at post-graduate level), but after looking a bit more deeply I find it is not precisely known at all. The problem is that precession is not constant and depends on various constantly changing factors. I think it's been solved. Precession is 9,360,000 days. Break it down into 13 or 12 depending on your predilection. A couple more factors make it not so easy for precession to change are, the heavier the object - the greater the force required to affect it and an object in motion tends to stay in that motion (until affected by another force). Have you known of rate changes?

A spinning top precesses at a steady rate, but the Earth does not. At the Equinoxes the Sun has no affect, but at the Solstices it is at maximum. For the Moon's effect it's the same but on a monthly cycle - 2 maximums and 2 minimums, with the result that the Earth will move in a periodic way, very different to a spinning top. Equilibrium of those factors were balanced long ago, besides you're referring to miniscule annual perturbations - different scale...

PS re: a new measurement, I'll submit a question to a magazine editor...
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